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Episode 69: A GAME OF THRONES, TYRION IX: "Wounded Lions" SHOW NOTES!
🕑 Added 2019-07-01 14:01:03 +0000 UTCHello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish.
And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.
Welcome to the sixty-ninth episode of the Not A Cast, entitled: “Wounded Lions: An Analysis of AGOT, Tyrion IX,” in which Tywin Lannister gets a rundown on all the myriad ways in which he and his family are doomed, and decides to send Tyrion to court to take charge...to Tyrion’s surprise!
This episode is brought to you by our Small Council:
- Hand of the King WolfmanZack
- Grand Maester Timbob
- Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Mark N.
- Lord Travis, Master of Ships and Warden of the Waves
- Ser Keith J, Master of Whisperers
- Lord Philip the Merciful, Master of Laws
- Jancy O, Lady Commander of the Night’s Watch
- Lord Gene Master of Coin
- Archmaester June, Healer of the Lesser Poxes
- Ragged Michael, Warden of the North
- Nelson the Hammer, Prince of Dragonstone
- Scarlett the Other Red Woman and Mistress of Whisperers
- Lord Baby the Onion Baby
- Lord Blackheart the Defiant, Master of Zorse
- Lord Micah Warden of the West and the Kraken’s Bane
- Lord James: the Jim that was Promised
- The High Bearded Priest
- The Blue-Ringed Octoling
- Lord Jake, Assistant (to the) Hand of the King
- Lady Xena Valyrian
Thank you councillors very much!
Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show. Anything and everything!
Question
Ser Michael Y, a Sworn Sword patron, asks:
Howdy gentlemen! My question(s) revolve around why Dorne and the Reach were ignored by several key players. For the Reach, it seems as though Tywin just completely ignored them at the start of the war. The Reach has arguably been the greatest rival of the Westerlands in history, and then Tywin takes the majority of fighting men to the Riverlands where he will eventually get his ass handed to him by Robb. If Mace and company had gone north rather than east, Tywin would have been done for. No relief army to be raised, multifront war, supply chain ruined. I get that Tywin doesn't know about Renly at first, but you'd think he would want to lock down the Reach. And why didn't Mace and Renly raid the Westerlands for some easy victories? Were they that worried about Stannis?
Synopsis
They have my son, Tywin Lannister says. Yes, yes, they do, the exhausted messenger says to Emmett’s and my schadenfreude.
One of your sons, Tyrion thinks but doesn’t say.
Tyrion loves Jaime, but he’s glad he wasn’t with him at the Whispering Wood. But in this room, things aren’t that much better.
Tywin is surrounded by toadies, ahem, his “assembled captains and bannermen”, and they’re all quite silent at the story the courier tells. They’re also probably a bit tired themselves, having marched day and night in a desperate attempt to reach Jaime in time. And, of course, because this is Tywin, those who couldn’t keep up on the march - including the wounded - were left along the side of the kingsroad to die. Meanwhile, others had deserted. I guess “Leave no man behind” isn’t Tywin’s driving motivation here.
They’d made it as far as the Inn at the Crossroads before word had reached the Lannisters that Robb Stark himself had reached Riverrun “days and days ago.”
“How could this happen?” Ser Harys of the Blue Cock sigil moans. “How? Even after the Whispering Wood, you had Riverrun ringed in iron, surrounded by a great host …”
Ser Harys goes on to say that Jaime was being a damn fool for splitting his army into three camps to surround Riverrun, but Tyrion ain’t about having Jaime’s name sullied by someone who has a blue cock for a sigil who married into the Lannisters. And Kevan gives a more fact-based assessment, stating that splitting an army into three camps is the only way to besiege the castle given the geography of Riverrun (situated on a speck of land with the Tumblestone River flowing into the Red Fork and when the sluice gates open, it creates something like a third river. So, Jaime would have needed to split his army into three.
There is no other way, none, Kevan concludes.
The courier, who just must have had the most amazing, practically bird’s eye view of the entire encampment, backs Kevan up, talking about how they built a palisade of sharpened wooden stakes around each of the camps, but they didn’t have warning when the Starks descended on them.
The courier, basically the Bloodraven omniscient of the entire battle, states that the north camp was attacked first a day after Jaime went to deal with what he thought was Marq Piper’s raiding parties. You see, they were told that the Starks were still on the east bank of the Green Fork after all …
And your outriders? Gregor Clegane asks.They saw nothing? They gave you no warning?
Well, no, not precisely. Jaime’s outriders kept mysteriously disappearing. They thought this was Marq Piper and his fifty … men? Lol, okay, sure. Marq Piper and fifty dudes would totally explain why all your outriders are going missing. So, Gregor Clegane offers the advice of taking out the eyes of the failing outriders and giving them to the next set of outriders, and if that doesn’t work, take out their eyes and give them and the previous set of eyes to the third set of outriders.
Tywin, silent, thank you, studies Gregor Clegane silent, and Tyrion is unsure whether his dad approves or disapproves of what the Mountain is advising. And that silence was typical of Tywin in council meetings - something Tyrion tried to copy. But this particular silence was atypical. Hell, he wasn’t even drinking his obviously purchased at local fair value price wine.
The courier continues with his story talking about Brynden Black came down on the northern barricade with his vanguard, moving all the stakes aside to let the main army push through the northern camp, torches and swords in hand to kill some Lannister goons. Our brave courier was sleeping in the western tent when the fighting broke out, and Lord Brax, commander of the western camp attempted to for the river on-board rafts, all in armor, to assist the northern camp.
Alas, so alas, the current pushes them down from the northern camp as the Tully garrison threw rocks down on them from catapults with several boats getting his with these rocks or overturned by the current so very tragically. And those survivors who made it to the other side of the river were met with Stark swords. Oh, Ser Flement Brax, didn’t see you there. Did you have any questions about y’know your dad or something? Oh, did he make it? Welllllll …
“Sorry my lord,” the messenger said. “Lord Brax was clad in plate-and-mail when his raft overturned. He was very gallant.”
Tyrion thinks that maybe crossing a body of water, Victarion-style all clad up in armor is totally fucking asinine, and while I’m no engineer, I suspect that Tyrion is, of course, correct.
Back to the story of the Lannisters get pantsed by a fourteen year old. The middle Lannister camp was overwhelmed as more Stark troopers came pounding in fro the west led by Greatjon Umber and … Robb Stark himself with Grey Wind running beside him. God, this is so fucking satisfying to recount even all these years after I first watched Season 1 and read AGOT!
The Lannister tried to form a shield wall to hold off Robb’s cavalry attack, but Lord Tytos Blackwood led an attack from Riverrun itself against the southern camp, taking them in the rear. Then Greatjon Umber burned the Lannister siege towers. Tytos Blackwood freed Ser Edmure Tully. And the only Lannister camp unengaged in battle, in the words of the United States Marine Corps, decided to advance backwards with about 4000 men, minus the Tyroshi sellsword and his band of troops who turned cloak for Robb Stark.
Kevan Lannister gets all angry about this particular sellsword, especially after he told Jaime not to trust sellswords. Tywin, though, remains still as stone even as Harys Swyft starts whining about how this was a total catastrophe. Addam Marbrand gets all saucy, thanking Lord Blue Cock for pointing out the obvious. But let’s focus on what we can do now. Well, not much really. The Starks have truly pantsed Tywin Lannister, cutting off their supply line to the west. And Robb can march on Casterly Rock if they want. Maybe they should sue for peace?
“Peace?” Tyrion swirled his wine thoughtfully, took a deep draft, and hurled his empty cup to the floor, where it shattered into a thousand pieces. “There’s your peace, Ser Harys. My sweet nephew broke it for good and all when he decided to ornament the Red Keep with Lord Eddard’s head. You’ll have an easier time drinking wine from that cup than you will convincing Robb Stark to make peace now. He’s winning … or hadn’t you noticed?”
Addam Marbrand weakly puts in that they haven’t lost the war yet. Lord Lefford offers the idea that they could trade for prisoners, but that idea is silly too. The Starks have three times as many captives as the Lannisters as Tyrion points out. Well, maybe Robb will trade Jaime for Sansa and Arya. Addam goes all “Bros, they ain’t trade for GIRL, c’mon!” How about ransoming Jaime? C’mon. Serious suggestions. Harys puts in the idea to raise an army from somewhere or another, maybe get another army together at Casterly Rock.
Lord Tywin Lannister rose to his feet. “They have my son. Leave me. All of you.”
Tyrion, ever the soul of obedience, prepares to get out of town, but Tywin stops him. He wants Tyrion and Kevan to remain. Everyone else GTFO.
Tyrion sits his ass back down to the bench and asks Kevan to pour him a glass of wine. Shockingly, Tywin pours a cup of wine for Tyrion himself, and then even more shockingly, tells Tyrion that he was right about Ned and Robb. They could have traded Ned for Jaime and possibly brought a peace about before turning to deal with Stannis and Renly. But now, with Ned dead … ain’t gonna happen.
Tyrion tries to put in that Joffrey is only a foolish kid and can make mistakes just like he did when he was a kid.
His father gave him a sharp look. “I suppose we ought to be grateful that he has not yet married a whore.”
Yeesh, Tywin is such a fucking dick, man. Tyrion wants to throw his wine cup at his dad, but he restraints himself.
Tywin then proceeds to say how bad things really are:
- Renly Baratheon has wed Margaery Tyrell and is crowned at Highgarden with the might of the Tyrells at his back
- Cersei wants Tywin to ride back to King’s Landing to defend King’s Landing
- Joffrey wants to march the gold cloaks against Renly, leaving King’s Landing undefended.
And leaving King’s Landing undefended would leave it vulnerable to STANNIS! Yes, our king is starting to come into the narrative! Tyrion asks what’s up with Stannis, and Tywin has words about this:
“I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined. Yet he does nothing. Oh, Varys hears his whispers. Stannis is building ships. Stannis is hiring sellswords, Stannis is bringing a shadowbinder from Asshai. What does it mean? Is any of it true?”
I will give Tywin this: he is not wrong about this one thing.
Tywin orders his servant, um, brother, Kevan to fetch a map, and then he lays out how bad things are:
- Robb Stark has cut off their retreat to the west
- Roose Bolton is to their north
- The Brotherhood without Banners is attacking their “foraging parties.”
- The Arryns are up in the east
- Stannis is on Dragonstone
- Highgarden and Storm’s End are calling their banners.
- The Riverlanders will join with the Stark cause
Tyrion, quite unfunilly and untypically, tells Tywin to take heart. At least Rhaegar Targaryen is still dead. Well, Tywin isn’t up for japes. And neither is Kevan. In all, the Lannister army will be caught between three armies here at the Inn at the Crossroads.
But Tywin doesn’t intend to stay here. He needs to finish Robb Stark before Renly moves from Highgarden. So, they’re going to march to Harrenhal. Wait, Harrenhal? Yes, Harrenhal. Oh, and Kevan, Tywin has some orders for you:
Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork.
And then Kevan bravely refuses Tywin’s command on conscience grounds, right? Nooooooooooooope.
“They will burn my lord,” Kevan said, rising. “I shall give the commands.”
His complicity in war crimes complete, Kevan bows and leaves.
Now alone with Tyrion, Tywin looks him over and tells his son or “son” that his mountain clansmen can join Amory Lorch if they’d like in all the rapine Lorch will be up to. But Tyrion says that they’ll do just fine without instruction. All the same, Tyrion wants to keep the clansmen with him. He trusts them more than he does any of his dad’s dudes.
In that case, Tyrion, you’d best get your wildlings under control. The city is not to be plundered. Wait, the city? Yup, the city. Tyrion is going to King’s Landing and to court. And what’s Tyrion to do there. Rule. Tyrion laughs and says that Cersei ain’t going to like that. But Tywin doesn’t give a shit what Cersei wants. When does he ever? Instead, Tyrion need to get down to King’s Landing to rein Joffrey in.
Tywin blames Littlefinger, Pycelle and “that cockless wonder Lord Varys” for poor counsel to Joffrey. And OMG, Tyrion, did you hear they made some fuckin’ peasant a lord? Yeah. His name is Janos Slynt. And they gave him Harrenhal. The goddamn nerve of it all. Even worse, they dismissed Ser Barristan Selmy from the Kingsguard. That guy was a legend and lent legitimacy to whoever he served. Not so much the case for his replacement: Sandor Clegane.
You feed your dog bones under the table, you do not seat him beside you on the high bench.
Lovely, Tywin. Just lovely. Regardless, Tyrion is to curb Joffrey if Cersei can’t. And if those goddamned counselors are playing the Lannisters false …
Spikes. Heads Walls.
Tywin almost approvingly tells Tyrion that he’s taken a page from ol’ dad. But there’s something that’s irking Tyrion. Why him? Why not Kevan or Ser Addam or Ser Flement or Lord Serrett? Why not a bigger man?
Lord Tywin rose abruptly. “You are my son.”
That was when he knew. You have give him up for lost, Tyrion thought. YOu bloody bastard, you think Jaime’s good as dead, so I’m all you have left.
Tyrion wants to slap Tywin or cut his dad’s heart from his chest to see if it’s made of gold. Instead, he sits there “silent and still.”
Tywin walks out of the room, his boots crunching on the broken shards of glass from Tyrion’s cup, but as he reaches the door, he stops.
“One last thing. You will not take the whore to court.”
Man, Tywin is such a great dad, man. God, what a piece of a work!
Tyrion stays in the common hall for a long time before he gets back up to the room below the bell-tower (trivia-note: I think this is the same room that Catelyn stayed in back when she came here in Catelyn V). He looks outside and sees Masha Heddle’s body still swinging from the gibbet, “her flesh grown as thin and ragged as Lannister hopes.”
Tyrion finds Shae in his bed, cops a feel and when she wakes, he’s got an idea
“I have a mind to take you to King’s Landing, sweetling.”
Boy, I sure hope that doesn’t have any consequences … Y I K E S
And that is AGOT, Tyrion IX and the end of Tyrion’s AGOT chapters. Just 3 to go after this one, guys and gals: Jon, Catelyn Daenerys.
I gotta admit, though, I really love the shit out of this chapter. This really feels like a ACOK Tyrion chapter as Martin is really hitting his stride when it comes to Tyrion in his later chapters in AGOT. And this is only going to ramp up in quality as we get into ACOK.
Admittedly, too, I love hearing how boned the Lannisters are in this chapter too! What did you think, Emmett?
Depth
Ok, so: Sansa VI and Dany IX were these intense emotional gauntlets driven by imagery and big thematic statements about the genre, and Tyrion IX is not that. If you break it down to the bones, it’s basically a giant infodump that ends with a blatant stinger--next time on Tyrion Lannister: Hand of the King!
However, it’s also an example of how to do expositional piece-moving correctly, so it feels neither forced nor boring. So many of the dynamics we’ve been talking about inform this chapter and give it flavor, like basting a dry turkey. We’ve been primed not only to dislike Tywin and Jaime but to consider them insufferably arrogant, so seeing them get their comeuppance here is hugely cathartic even on reread. We’ve been seeing Robb mature through Catelyn’s eyes, so hearing about his latest triumph mixes pride into the schadenfreude. And while Tyrion is a lot more like his dad than he’d care to admit right now (as we’ve been covering in his most recent chapters), it’s still hugely exciting to see him named as Hand of the King. There’s a ton of plot details to work through in Tyrion IX, and they’re just delivered straight to the audience, but all of them are embedded in such a way as to evoke big reactions.
I love your point about this chapter working like a season closer with a stinger! As a lot of you all know, George RR Martin was an established Science-Fiction/Horror Writer starting in the 1970s. But in the mid-1980s, he made his foray out to Hollywood where he wrote for TV shows such as the reimagined Beauty and the Beast show. In fact, ASOIAF may not have ever been written had the TV pilot for a show known as Doorways been picked up for a full season run. Instead, in 1993, the show was cancelled, and George returned to writing AGOT.
This is George at his most TV-writer-ish. Lots of pieces reshuffling, hints at what’s to come and the fun reveal at the end: Tyrion is going to King’s Landing. But I agree that it’s not boring or forced. I know, I know. I’m a basic bitch when it comes to my ASOIAF chapters. To paraphrase the Joker from The Dark Knight, I’m a man of simple tastes: I love politics, inter-family tension and drama and sword fights.
And, of course, I love my chapters where the bad guys look totally boned. Because man, as I said earlier: the Lannisters are so boned at the end of AGOT.
- Battle of the Camps
- Like the news of Ned’s death arriving at Winterfell, the word of doom comes from a bloodstained messenger
- Tyrion then spells out the grim toll of their march south, only to be rendered pointless by Robb’s military skills, which are then outlined in the battle itself
- Surrounded by foes
- But the Lannisters aren’t only screwed thanks to Robb Stark’s prodigious military talents. As Tywin and Kevan outline, they’ve got enemies in every direction
- To the north: Roose Bolton.
- “Bolton does not concern me. He is a wary man, and we made him warier on the Green Fork. He will be slow to give pursuit.”
- Of course, Tywin beat Roose, so naturally the former dismisses the latter
- But this also sets up how Roose will hold back his forces, moving only when he stands to gain--namely, by taking Harrenhal from Amory Lorch
- In the meantime, his presence cuts Tywin off from attacking northward towards the Neck and Moat Cailin, just as Robb foresaw
- To the south: Renly Baratheon.
- “We must finish our business with young Lord Stark before Renly Baratheon can march from Highgarden.”
- Tywin considers Stannis to be a significantly greater threat than Renly (presumably for the same reasons Tyrion feels that way in ACOK: Stannis’ military background and cold hard temperament)
- Renly is also in a less geographically threatening position than Stannis or Robb--Highgarden is a long distance from both the capital and the Rock
- And while Robb is in the field and Stannis has been presumably up to something on Dragonstone, Renly only just called his banners
- However, the strength of the Reach means that Renly’s army will be formidable whenever it does emerge, so Tywin must quickly deal with his other problems in order to eventually give Renly his full attention
- To the east: Lysa (like Roose, to be kept an eye on rather than actively feared), and of course Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!
- “I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined. Yet he does nothing. Oh, Varys hears his whispers. Stannis is building ships, Stannis is hiring sellswords, Stannis is bringing a shadowbinder from Asshai. What does it mean? Is any of it true?”
- I’m curious as to what Tywin means by “the beginning.” Of the war? Or the cold war prior to Ned’s arrival--how much of that is Tywin aware of?
- Regardless, this gets at something we’ve talked about before: while the Stark v. Lannister struggle understandably gets the lion’s share (rimshot) of the attention, the Starks joined this war through a series of unexpected reversals, mistakes, and coincidences, not a pre-existing tension
- The bones of the conflict, the showdown everyone was building up for prior to the actual breakout of combat, was Baratheon v. Lannister
- And “yet he does nothing.” Renly beats Stannis to the punch, and while we here at the NotACast generally sympathize with Stannis when he rages about that, it’s a by-product of him waiting so long to make a move
- Partially that’s just on George, because he needs Stannis to wait, but it’s also a statement about the ambiguity that will define his character
- On the one hand, Tywin’s statement makes him sound awesome and badass: more of a threat than all these other factions combined!!!
- On the other, “yet he does nothing” hints at the fragility of Stannis’ actual campaign for the throne that will plague him throughout book two
- And to the west: Robb Stark.
- This is the enemy Tywin decides to focus on, because Renly is unproven and at a distance while Stannis has yet to get into the game
- Robb, meanwhile, has not only demonstrated his skills, but he threatens both Tywin’s supply lines and the Westerlands themselves
- However, Tywin’s army just went through a forced march and isn’t likely to win if he takes the fight directly to Riverrun, especially since the Riverlords that answered Edmure’s summons have now joined Robb
- It’s noted that with the lords of the trident joining Robb’s cause, Tywin’s army is outnumbered by Robb and his new riverlords alone. Factor in Roose Bolton’s host north at the Twins, and Tywin is at a near 2 to 1 numerical disadvantage.
- Moreover, Tywin has to be in position to relieve King’s Landing in case Stannis sails or Renly marches
- Finally, he needs a stronger base than this goddamn inn!
- Tywin solves all of his problems by occupying Harrenhal, which is a canny move, let’s give him credit
- I’ll give Tywin this: my reading of the plan essentially was to bait Robb Stark into launching an attack on one of the largest and most-easily defensible castles in Westeros while simultaneously raising a new army in the Westerlands.
- Perhaps Tywin is “taking a leaf from Robb’s playbook”
- Hole up at Harrenhal, have a smaller force (which we’ll talk about here in a moment) harass and scorch the earth the Riverlands, wait for Robb to come siege the castle and then move your 2nd army in to attack Robb’s besieging force -- much as Robb Stark did at Riverrun.
- I’ll give Tywin this: my reading of the plan essentially was to bait Robb Stark into launching an attack on one of the largest and most-easily defensible castles in Westeros while simultaneously raising a new army in the Westerlands.
- So is the plan to lure Robb out of Riverrun to be defeated quickly so Tywin can then focus on the Baratheon Bros
- This is the aspect of the plan that I have a lot of “concerns” about!
- If Tywin is holed up at Harrenhal, it leaves his southern and eastern flanks exposed to Renly and Stannis respectively.
- Tywin could be under siege for a long time -- provided that Robb doesn’t attempt to take the castle by force of arms
- And the time it will take Stafford Lannister to raise a new host at the Golden Tooth to take Robb’s army in the rear will be long!
- Consider that Stafford still hasn’t moved from the Golden Tooth prior to Robb marching west from Riverrun in ACOK.
- All this gets at something that we’re going to be emphasizing A LOT as we talk about Robb, Tywin, Stannis and the War of the Five Kings come ACOK and ASOS: how fuckin’ lucky Tywin gets in terms of the timing of everything.
- This is the aspect of the plan that I have a lot of “concerns” about!
- But this is where we have to talk about the brutality of Tywin’s tactics
- We’ll get more into it at the end of the episode; suffice to say that while “even terror has its purpose” to quote your namesake, that’s no justification for setting the Riverlands afire from the Red Fork to the Gods Eye
- Certainly true! This is a point that Steven Attewell has brought up, but in the historical context of chevauchee defined as the “raiding method of medieval warfare for weakening the enemy, primarily by burning and pillaging enemy territory in order to reduce the productivity of a region, as opposed to siege warfare or wars of conquest” never reached the level of atrocity that Tywin has going on.
- Reason being is that even the worst medieval practitioner of chevauchee - Edward III, the Black Prince - did not want a full-scale devastation of territory that he hoped to control.
- Though the historical medieval practice has been correctly called “Organised Medieval Murder” by medieval historian Robert Wilde, it was limited in scope.
- What Tywin is advocating for is burning an entire kingdom of Westeros -- the region which is second only to the Reach for food production in Westeros.
- Reason being is that even the worst medieval practitioner of chevauchee - Edward III, the Black Prince - did not want a full-scale devastation of territory that he hoped to control.
- Certainly true! This is a point that Steven Attewell has brought up, but in the historical context of chevauchee defined as the “raiding method of medieval warfare for weakening the enemy, primarily by burning and pillaging enemy territory in order to reduce the productivity of a region, as opposed to siege warfare or wars of conquest” never reached the level of atrocity that Tywin has going on.
- As we’ll see in Arya’s POV in ACOK and ASOS, these are the atrocities that come to define the War of Five Kings, elevating it from a relatively brief fight on par with one of the later Blackfyre Rebellions to an endless bloody catastrophe
- The rampages of Gregor Clegane, Amory Lorch, and above all the Bloody Mummers are arguably where you see George’s anti-war leanings most clearly
- Quite! But George is “fair” enough in his depiction to show how Tywin’s tactics work towards his greater strategy.
- Come ACOK, the riverlords beg Robb to take their levies back home to defend their lands from Tywin’s ravagers, and Robb reluctantly agrees.
- Come ACOK, the riverlords beg Robb to take their levies back home to defend their lands from Tywin’s ravagers, and Robb reluctantly agrees.
- Quite! But George is “fair” enough in his depiction to show how Tywin’s tactics work towards his greater strategy.
- We’ll get more into it at the end of the episode; suffice to say that while “even terror has its purpose” to quote your namesake, that’s no justification for setting the Riverlands afire from the Red Fork to the Gods Eye
"Do we grow stronger sitting here? Our host dwindles every day."
"And whose doing is that?" Catelyn snapped at her brother. It had been at Edmure's insistence that Robb had given the river lords leave to depart after his crowning, each to defend his own lands. Ser Marq Piper and Lord Karyl Vance had been the first to go. Lord Jonos Bracken had followed, vowing to reclaim the burnt shell of his castle and bury his dead, and now Lord Jason Mallister had announced his intent to return to his seat at Seagard, still mercifully untouched by the fighting.
- That being said, let’s not kid ourselves here: the level of destruction that Tywin orders is vast, personal.
- Of course, Tywin is making this distinction for sound strategic reasons. He always has a reason. He’s a methodical logical war criminal, not at all like Aerys…
- ...but what was it Aerys kept saying?
- “Burn them all.”
- And what was it Myles Toyne told Jon Connington about how Tywin would’ve handled Robert at Stoney Sept?
- “Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all.”
- And in what context does Stannis invoke both Tywin and Aerys in ASOS?
- Melisandre put her hand on the king's arm. "The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious. From his king's blood and his untainted fire, a dragon shall be born."
…
“I remember the first time my father took me to court, Robert had to hold my hand. I could not have been older than four, which would have made him five or six. We agreed afterward that the king had been as noble as the dragons were fearsome." Stannis snorted. "Years later, our father told us that Aerys had cut himself on the throne that morning, so his Hand had taken his place. It was Tywin Lannister who'd so impressed us." His fingers touched the surface of the table, tracing a path lightly across the varnished hills. "Robert took the skulls down when he donned the crown, but he could not bear to have them destroyed. Dragon wings over Westeros . . . there would be such a . . ."
- Melisandre put her hand on the king's arm. "The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious. From his king's blood and his untainted fire, a dragon shall be born."
- So is there much difference at the end of the day between the unpredictable sadist and the controlled deliberate monster?
- Tywin’s not just luring out Robb’s lords to their destruction; he’s radicalizing the smallfolk, as we see with the Brotherhood in ASOS and the Sparrows in AFFC
- Neither movement is exactly fond of the Starks, but they know who their main enemies are: Beric will deal with Robb but never Tywin, and when Cersei blames the hideous fates befalling so many of the Faith on dirty hippie tree worshippers who came south with Robb, the High Sparrow doesn’t buy it for a second
- This order, expanding on the Tysha backstory, is where George cements Tywin Lannister in our minds and in so many minds in Westeros as public enemy number one, the greatest threat to the people outside the forces of ice and fire
- The glorious golden lion lord, with his impeccable resume and his history of capable administration, the ideal self-image of Power, is a fucking monster
- Tywin doesn’t even show any remorse about what he’s doing--not that it would necessarily matter to his victims if he did, but this is just so chillingly casual:
- “Your savages might relish a bit of rapine. Tell them they may ride with Vargo Hoat and plunder as they like—goods, stock, women, they may take what they want and burn the rest."
- Word alert! “Rapine” is an older English word that means “the seizure of someone’s property by force.” Did not know this until looking it up.
- “Your savages might relish a bit of rapine. Tell them they may ride with Vargo Hoat and plunder as they like—goods, stock, women, they may take what they want and burn the rest."
- He then goes on to admonish Tyrion about keeping the clans in line lest the city be plundered, which is hysterically hypocritical given what he’s doing here, not to mention the Sack
- Of course he’s marching on Harrenhal, because what he unleashes along the way warrants him being cursed
- Is he looking at Gregor with approval or disdain? Does it matter?
- Tywin’s useless advisors
- Either way, Gregor is just one of a bunch of buzzing flies around Tywin in this chapter
- A lot of the catharsis comes from their impotent fuming
- Harys Swyft just keeps yelling that this is a catastrophe, and Addam Marbrand can only talk about how much he’d like to fight Robb
- Everyone has half a point, but no one has a strategy
- This is in clear embarrassing contrast to how Robb put his Northern coalition together and used it to wipe Jaime’s army off the map and join with the Riverlords
- It’s also a parallel to Tywin’s diagnosis of the problem in King’s Landing
- “I blame those jackanapes on the council—our friend Petyr, the venerable Grand Maester, and that cockless wonder Lord Varys. What sort of counsel are they giving Joffrey when he lurches from one folly to the next?”
- Suddenly, his glorious Lannister regime is fragile--he’s lost his chosen heir to his enemies, the next generation seems suspect, and he’s left with feasting crows
- Lord Tywin wove his fingers together under his chin. Only his eyes moved as he listened. His bristling golden side-whiskers framed a face so still it might have been a mask, but Tyrion could see tiny beads of sweat dappling his father’s shaven head.
- Enter Tyrion
- Interesting how Tywin and Tyrion are paralleled throughout this scene
- Both are staying silent until striking in with big dramatic lines
- Tyrion’s silent scornful thoughts undoubtedly mirror Tywin’s own when it comes to Lord Brax’s folly and Harys Swyft’s idiocy
- Kevan speaks Tyrion’s thoughts “a good deal more calmly than Tyrion might have,” and we know that Kevan is Tywin’s vanguard in council, so that suggests indeed that Tyrion and Tywin are thinking along similar lines
- And we know of course that Tywin agrees with Tyrion’s central diagnosis:
- “Peace?” Tyrion swirled his wine thoughtfully, took a deep draft, and hurled his empty cup to the floor, where it shattered into a thousand pieces. “There’s your peace, Ser Harys. My sweet nephew broke it for good and all when he decided to ornament the Red Keep with Lord Eddard’s head. You’ll have an easier time drinking wine from that cup than you will convincing Robb Stark to make peace now. He’s winning...or hadn’t you noticed?”
- Really strong dialogue, the chapter as a whole has so much great dialogue, a lot of which was taken word-for-word by GoT
- What Tyrion is getting at is that their central problem isn’t really Robb, but Joffrey
- Even the “catastrophe” of Robb capturing Jaime and crushing his army at Riverrun could be dealt with if Joffrey hadn’t ordered Ned killed
- Now Robb is in it for blood, and his sisters won’t be enough to end the fighting
- Their problem is political, not military, and so none of the strategic considerations under discussion will be enough unless someone brings Joffrey to heel
- And while Tywin says “you are my son” is the reason he’s specifically sending Tyrion, I think it’s more the cojones needed to take on Cersei (and Varys)
- Tyrion’s diagnosis made him seem like the one man who could handle it, because everyone else in the room is mirroring the “jackanapes” in KL
- For the first time, Tywin is seeing himself in Tyrion in a positive way
- Which is why, of course, he has to end the chapter with one last kneejerk reassurance that Tyrion is not going to turn out to be another Tytos:
- “You will not take the whore to court.”
- And in this moment in which Lannister hopes have grown thin and ragged, the family on his shoulders for the first time, Tyrion’s first move is defiance:
- “I have a mind to take you to King’s Landing, sweetling,” he whispered.
Foreshadowing/Groundwork
“Our south camp was under the command of Ser Forley Prester. He retreated in good order when he saw that the other camps were lost, with two thousand spears and as many bowmen, but the Tyroshi sellsword who led his freeriders struck his banners and went over to the foe.”
George has admitted that he just forgot about this Tyroshi sellsword guy. Interesting to wonder what his role might’ve been!
“You will not take the whore to court.”
This sets up the headfake of Alayaya in ACOK (as both Cersei and Tywin believe her to be Tyrion’s lover, and she suffers for it) and the payoff of Shae in Tywin’s bed at the end of ASOS.
“I had heard that Queen Cersei has the Hand’s daughters,” Lefford said hopefully. “If we give the lad his sisters back . . . ”
Ser Addam snorted disdainfully. “He would have to be an utter ass to trade Jaime Lannister’s life for two girls.”
Robb will indeed refuse this move, but Catelyn will give in after Bran and Rickon “die.”
Tyrion IX features our very first mention of Melisandre--as a “shadowbinder from Asshai” that Stannis has recruited. In ACOK, it’s mentioned that Selyse took up with Mel several years past, so the timeline has never been clear. Regardless, it seems all but certain that the red woman arrived on Dragonstone prior to the death of Jon Arryn and Stannis’ flight from King’s Landing.
Kevan Lannister talks about “A man who fights for coin is loyal only to his purse.” Like the Bloody Mummers, maybe?
Theory/Discussion
So, Jeff, we’ve talked a lot about Tyrion and Tywin in this episode, but there’s another Lannister man present in the chapter: Kevan. While Tywin’s clearly a villain and Tyrion is following in Dad’s footsteps, Uncle Kevan’s pretty cool, right? Varys describes him in ADWD as “a good man in service to a bad cause,” and Varys is never wrong, right??
Oh, Emmett. Is this payback for all those times I’ve led in with some absurd statement for our theory/discussion segment intended to get your blood up? BECAUSE IT’S WORKING.
So, first things first, I am going to limit the discussion to talk about Kevan Lannister’s personality and conduct in the War of the Five Kings. We’re going to have a hell of a discussion about Kevan Lannister as Lord Regent come AFFC/ADWD and his likely culpability in Cersei’s Walk of Shame, but you all know me: I have spent years damning Kevan Lannister as a war criminal in various outlets. So, let’s focus on that for now and table .
Kevan’s personality: The Lion’s Shadow
“It has been hard for Kevan, living all his life in Tywin's shadow. It was hard for all my brothers. That shadow Tywin cast was long and black, and each of them had to struggle to find a little sun. Tygett tried to be his own man, but he could never match your father, and that just made him angrier as the years went by. Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than to play and lose. But Kevan saw how things stood early on, so he made himself a place by your father's side." (AFFC, Jaime V)
Ser Kevan seldom "had a thought" that Lord Tywin had not had first. (AGOT, Tyrion VII)
Ser Kevan was his brother’s vanguard in council, Tyrion knew from long experience; he never had a thought that Lord Tywin had not had first. (ASOS, Tyrion III)
“My uncle Kevan would make a passably good regent if someone pressed the duty on him, but he will never reach for it. The gods shaped him to be a follower, not a leader.” (ADWD, Tyrion VI)
Kevan’s pre-book history with Tywin
- Marching with Tywin during the Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion
- We know from the extended Westerlands chapter of TWOIAF that Kevan Lannister rode side-by-side with Tywin in brutally extinguishing the Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion
- Sacking King’s Landing
- Again, we know from the ADWD Epilogue that Kevan was present when the bodies of Aegon and Rhaenys were laid in front of Robert.
- So, he was there when Tywin sacked King’s Landing.
- I wonder whether Kevan “had a thought” w/r/t the Sack of King’s Landing -- telling Tywin’s war council what they were really going to do when they got to King’s Landing.
- Again, we know from the ADWD Epilogue that Kevan was present when the bodies of Aegon and Rhaenys were laid in front of Robert.
Kevan and the War of the Five Kings
- We’re first introduced to Kevan with him bragging about how Kevan’s been an active participant in the then-successful Lannister campaign in the Riverlands:
"Your father and I have been marching on each in turn," Ser Kevan said. "With Lord Blackwood gone, Raventree fell at once, and Lady Whent yielded Harrenhal for want of men to defend it. Ser Gregor burnt out the Pipers and the Brackens …" (AGOT, Tyrion VII) - Here, in this chapter, we see Kevan again as the active, willing participant in Tywin’s destruction of the Riverlands:
“Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork.”
“They will burn, my lord,” Ser Kevan said, rising. “I shall give the commands.” He bowed and made for the door. (AGOT, Tyrion IX) - And though we don’t have a POV of Kevan’s exact actions during the WoT5K, Arya observes him as side-by-side with his brother Tywin when they move from Harrenhal in an attempt to cross back into the Westerlands.
Pale light filled the yard when Lord Tywin Lannister took his leave of Harrenhal. Arya watched from an arched window halfway up the Wailing Tower. His charger wore a blanket of enameled crimson scales and gilded crinet and chamfron, while Lord Tywin himself sported a thick ermine cloak. His brother Ser Kevan looked near as splendid. (ACOK, Arya VIII) - Side-by-side with Tywin is exactly how we should be looking at Kevan Lannister. As we talked about earlier, he’s the “lion’s shadow”, moving with Tywin, operating with Tywin, trying to be like Tywin in every way
- And in being Tywin’s shadow, we see Kevan as the same sort of war criminal that Tywin is.
- There’s zero hesitation when Kevan is told to dispatch Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch - child murderers and rapists both - to burn the Riverlands from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork
- There’s no indication that Kevan lifted an eyebrow as Tywin rounded up Riverlander smallfolk as slave labor at Harrenhal
- There’s only Kevan at Tywin’s side, issuing out Tywin’s immoral orders, without question.
- And I won’t hear arguments that Kevan had no choice in the matter. This is ASOIAF, and everyone has a choice -- especially in a military context.
- The very first thing American military personnel are taught is “The Law of Land Warfare” which puts rules on how to conduct warfare.
- Personal story: At Infantry School, we were presented with a scenario: you have intractable enemy who you’ve surrounded, but they are able to survive, because they have a source of water. Do you poison their water supply to win?
- Kevan has a choice in-universe. We know this, because Ned was faced with a similar choice back in Eddard VIII: participate in the murder of Daenerys and Viserys or resign.
- Jon has a choice with Qhorin Halfhand on murdering Ygritte as a prisoner.
- Kevan Lannister has a choice to not participate in Tywin’s immoral conduct.
- Yes, the consequence of defying Tywin Lannister could be death. The alternative is co-conspiring in the murder of tens of thousands, the rapes of thousands more, the destruction of people’s property and food, etc.
- Maybe kill Hitler rather than carry out his orders?
- Yes, the consequence of defying Tywin Lannister could be death. The alternative is co-conspiring in the murder of tens of thousands, the rapes of thousands more, the destruction of people’s property and food, etc.
Addressing the ethical argument: “That’s just the way war was back then!” or my favorite: “Stop applying modern moral values to a fantasy book series!”
- Without fail, every time a discussion of Kevan Lannister as a “war criminal” comes up, some dude (always a dude. So weird) comes in with a line about applying modern values to a fantasy series. Or the smarter Lannister apologists talk about how George is relaying a historical understanding of chevauchee without assigning moral value to the actions taken.
- To be frank, I hate these arguments on several levels.
- On a plain historical level, like we talked about earlier on chevauchee as medieval military practice, what Tywin and Kevan do in the Riverlands far exceeds the level of destruction that the most egregious practitioners of this type of warfare did.
- But my greater irritation is over this idea of not “embedding our morality into ASOIAF.”
- I think this argument is a too-common one, and I understand why it’s made at some level. There is a real danger in ahistorical thinking regarding historical events. The term people are looking for is “historical presentism.”
- But here’s the thing about ASOIAF: this isn’t a history book. It’s modern fantasy fiction written by a modern author.
- Beyond that, there’s a real sense of moral horror felt by the author at what’s happening in the Riverlands.
- Like Emmett talked about earlier, you can’t read Arya’s ACOK chapters and not see Martin’s own anti-war feelings over the hellscape that Tywin and Kevan create in the Riverlands.
- So, I think we’re absolutely supposed to regard the story from a modern lens even if it’s not a strictly moral story.
- And that’s what makes ASOIAF great fiction -- it causes us to wrestle with the issues presented in the story and reflect on how it pans out in modernity.
- ASOIAF is also great, because it allows me to say that Kevan Lannister is a war criminal.
- To be frank, I hate these arguments on several levels.
Conclusion
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