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Episode 21: A GAME OF THRONES, TYRION III: "A Giant At the End of the World" SHOW NOTES!
🕑 Added 2018-07-02 11:00:00 +0000 UTCHello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish.
And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.
Welcome to our twenty-first episode of the Not A Cast entitled: “A Giant at the End of the World: An Analysis of AGOT, Tyrion III,” in which Tyrion makes one promise he won’t keep and another that he will. This episode is brought to you all by our Lords Commander Mark N, Timothy W, Hayden J and our newest Lord Commander WolfmanZack, the Weed Detective. Thank you, gentlemen!
Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show. Anything and everything!
News/Questions
Ser Eli of the Bay Area asks:
I had a quick question I wanted to throw your way for potential answering on the Pod. I’ve been thinking a lot about the ways things could have gone different in the ASOIAF Universe and was wondering how you think King Robert, King Stannis and the False Traitorous King Renly would have each handled the situation with Cersei and the bastard children had they learned of it AND (in the case of Stannis and Really) come to full power over Westeros.
What got me thinking about this was Ser Davos and his fingers as a “just punishment” and what Stannis would have considered a just punishment, not only for Cersei but also for the three children who have no fault in the matter whatsoever.
Would love your thoughts. Amen Brothers!
Ser Andrew B asks:
Gentlemen,
You're brilliant. The show is brilliant. Keep it up.
Quick follow-up on your Thorne villain chat: would you care to talk about his brief political alliance with Janos Slynt.
It makes sense that they'd bond over a hated of Tyrion, but if the reason we're given for his attitude is the injustice of him being sent north for serving the crown during Robert's rebellion, wouldn't that put him at odds with Slynt, a man who loves to tout his Lannister connections?
Unless it's just a matter of political expediency upon his return to a leaderless Wall, which could go towards fleshing out why he acts as he does when Jon moves to execute Slynt in Dance.
Just something to chew on.
Also, being from Kentucky, I think Jeff should really let the twang shine in his Craster voice. No need to hold back.
If you all haven’t already, check out our special patreon episode on Stannis on patreon.com/NotACastASOIAF
Synopsis
Tyrion Lannister enjoys a final meal with the leadership of the Night’s Watch to the ostensible chagrin of Lord Commander Mormont who asks Tyrion if he needs to leave so soon. Tyrion states that his brother Jaime will wonder if Tyrion has taken the black. We have need of men of your sort, Tyrion, Mormont replies. Cunning men. Well, Tyrion will gather up the dwarfs from Westeros and send them to the Wall if needs be.
Back to the important thing: food. It’s Tyrion’s last meal, and it’s a feast. Succulent Snow Crabs, baby. Yum. They’d arrived just this morning from Eastwatch by the Sea packed in snow. It’s a nice meal and nice company, except for Ser Alliser Thorne who accuses Tyrion of mocking the Night’s Watch with his offer to find dwarves to send to the Wall. No, tyrion isn’t mocking the Watch, only Ser Alliser. Nervous laughter and murderous rage from Ser Alliser who challenges Tyrion to a duel in the castle courtyard. And why would Tyrion go there. The crabs are here. Come and make your japes with steel in your hand, Ser Alliser thunders, rising from the table.
Tyrion has steel in his hands: his crab fork. And he “duels” Ser Alliser by jumping up on the table and poking him with the crab fork. Everyone is laughing except for Ser Alliser who flees the room. When the knight is gone, the meal resumes with Tyrion taking Alliser’s portion. Mormont gently rebukes Tyrion for being too cruel with Alliser, but Tyrion replies that Alliser is a humorless dullard. Alliser really shouldn’t be instructing the new recruits. He should be shoveling shit. He’s a bad drill instructor.
Not an unfair accusation but one that LC Mormont dismisses. Alliser is a sworn knight and fought bravely at King’s Landing. On the wrong side, Ser Jaremy Rykker replies dryly. Ser Jaremy would know. He was on the battlements of the city with Alliser. You see, Jaremy and Alliser arrived at Castle Black at the same time having been given the choice of having their heads mounted on spikes by Tywin Lannister or taking the black. The choice seemed an easy one.
Tyrion remarks that he’s sure that Rykker’s head would have been a noble one to sit above the King’s Gate in King’s Landing. Lord commander Mormont wonders now whether Tyrion is mocking them. We all need to be mocked from time to time, Lord Mormont, les we take ourselves too seriously.
They drink more. Rykker remarks that Tyrion has a great thirst for a small man. And then our other favorite character at the Wall (I think I can speak for Emmett on this one) speaks up. Oh I think that Lord tyrion is quite a large man. I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world. Maester Aemon has entered the game. Tyrion is taken aback at being called a giant and says that he’s been seldom called a giant. Nonetheless, I think it is true, Aemon replies.
Tyrion is stunned, almost too much for words. He thanks Aemon, calling him kind. Aemon smiles, replying that I have been called many things, my lord, but kind is seldom one of them. Everyone laughs, eats, drinks.
We pick up a few hours later with Mormont and Tyrion alone in front of a fireplace drinking whiskey or … in ASOIAF-parlance “cups of mulled spirits.” Mormont offers to send an honor guard south with Tyrion at least as far as Winterfell. Tyrion declines. He has his own guard and Yoren is coming. But if Mormont is so inclined, how about letting Jon Snow come with Tyrion? He could see his family. Eh, not a good idea, Tyrion. Jon’s supposed to be embracing his new brothers. If he hangs out with his family, he may have second thoughts about joining the Watch.
And boy do they need every man at the Wall. Things are getting bad at the Wall. Mormont estimates that the entire strength of the Night’s Watch is below 1000 menn -- 600 at Castle Black, 200 at the Shadow Tower, fewer than 200 at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. That’s 3 men for every mile of the 300 mile Wall. Three and a third, Tyrion corrects.
Mormont doesn’t seem to hear and talks about sending Benjen Stark to search for Waymar Royce, concluding that he was a fool for sending a green boy (That’s Waymar) out in the first place, and then having to send Benjen Stark after him. But now that Benjen Stark is missing, who will he send after him? A daunting question.
But it gets worse for the Night’s Watch, only a third of current 1000 or so men are rangers. It’s now sullent boys and tired men. Only 20 outside of the high command can read, fewer than that who can think, plan or lead. Hey, wait a minute, isn’t there someone who fulfills all of these criteria? Hm, more on that later. All in all, they’re not solidifying the defenses of the Wall. They’re surviving.
Tyrion realizes that Mormont is deathly serious, and he promises that he’ll bring the Lord Commander’s concerns to the king, his brother and his father. But he knows that it won’t do any good. Robert would ignore him, Tywin would ask if Tyrion has gone crazy and Jaime would only laugh.
The discussion shifts to winter. Tyrion has seen 8 or 9 short winters, but Mormont is convinced that the next winter is coming, and it won’t be short. It’s been a long summer, and long summers mean long winters. Maybe it’s the Great Summer at hand, Tyrion jokes, but Mormont remains in no joking mood. As the old bear says:
I tell you, my lord, the darkness is coming. There are wild things in the woods, direwolves and mammoths and snow bears, the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams. The fisherfolk near Eastwatch have glimpsed White Walkers on the shore.
Hooo boy. Tyrion thinks it’s just the usual fisherfolk tales like the ones he heard in Lannisport -- about Merlings and such. But that’s not all. Mormont has reports from the Shadow Tower of the mountain folk fleeing south and crossing the Wall, running from something. But running from what? Well, the Others, but Mormont fears that the Long Night is about to fall and only the Night’s Watch will stand between the realm and the darkness that sweeps from the north. The gods help us if we are not ready.
The gods help me if I do not get some sleep, Tyrion replies.
Tyrion walks outside and sets off for his chambers until he glimpses the Wall and a madness overtakes him. He wants to see the world from the top of the Wall one last time. So, he heads over to the iron cage, enters it, yanks on the bell and waits. He waits so long he thinks they’ve forgotten him. But at long last, the cage begins moving up the Wall.
When Tyrion reaches the top of the Wall, he explains his purpose to the Watchmen: he wants a last look. Look all you want. Just have a care you don’t fall off, little man. The Old Bear would have our hides. So, Tyrion treads carefully, but he doesn't really need to. The Wall is wider than the kingsroad, and the watchmen lay gravel on it to prevent slippage. Tyrion walks west for no particular reason, passing a broken catapult and runs into none other than Jon Snow.
Jon is standing watch armed with a heavy spear and warhorn, and he’s drawn this watch again, because Ser Alliser wants to exhaust him in hopes that he’ll fall asleep in the training yard. Jon reports that his own training of his fellow recruits is going well with the boys making improvements, and then the bastard asks the dwarf if he’d like to walk the mile of Wall with him. Tyrion agrees if they walk slowly.
Tyrion reports that he’s leaving in the morning. Jon knows and is sad about it. Tyrion attempts to cheer Jon by telling him he’ll be stopping by Winterfell and asks if there’s any message Jon wants to convey. Jon says Tell Robb that I’m going to command the Night’s Watch and keep him safe, so he might as well take up needlework with the girls and have Mikken melt down his sword for horseshoes.
Tyrion laughs and declines to give such a message, and Jon gets a bit more serious. Tell Rickon that he can have all my things while I’m away. He doesn’t know what to say to Bran, but he asks Tyrion if he can help him in some way. Tyrion agrees to perform whatever small help he can. And then in a really cool touching moment, Jon extends a hand to Tyrion saying “Friend”, and Tyrion says that most of his kins are bastards, but Jon’s the first bastard Tyrion’s had to friend.
They walk on with Tyrion observing that the woods are about a half mile north of the Wall, and how that was intentional on the NW part. But beyond them, the haunted forest was there, and the sight of that chills Tyrion. He can almost believe that the Others are out there. Jon is observing too. He tells Tyrion that the first night he was up here, he was sure that Benjen would return. But he didn’t, and he hasn’t been back at all. And if Benjen doesn’t come back, Jon and Ghost would go find him in the Haunted forest.
Tyrion believes Jon, but he has a shivering thought: And who will go find you?
And that is AGOT, Tyrion III: a chapter that to me really feels like two chapters or at least a two separate stories that are separate but kind of tie together at the end.
Depth
Yes, that’s true, the two dialogue scenes that form the heart of this chapter (Tyrion with the Old Bear and Jon) feel like somewhat unconnected if individually strong episodes. It’s more of a mood piece than anything else. If Jon III was all about what the Night’s Watch looks like to the newcomers, the first half of Tyrion III taps into how the old guard is feeling, and while not altogether hopeless, it’s certainly a grim and gloomy picture. This is where we get into one of the most prominent subjects in ASOIAF: the institutional weaknesses of the Night’s Watch, an institution that humanity really really REALLY needs to be as strong as possible.
- Tyrion, Ser Alliser, and the Elephant in the Room
- Alliser is too proud and thin-skinned to play nice with an influential outsider
- His instinct to duel gets at the blade-and-bravado weak spot within the NW
- Tyrion calls out his unfitness:
- “Chip the ice off your eyes, my good lords. Ser Alliser Thorne should be mucking out your stables, not drilling your young warriors.”
- Note the class implications of LC Mormont’s response:
- “Ser Alliser is an anointed knight, one of the few to take the black since I have been Lord Commander.”
- Introducing Maester Aemon
- Like Pycelle in the previous chapter, he’s an elderly maester introduced smiling sleepily in the corner whilst the younger men talk at each other
- Unlike Pycelle, he genuinely is a font of wisdom and a paragon of character
- A kind man in truth, despite what he says here, and so similarly Tyrion is a giant among men even if no one ever recognizes him as such
- Is it perhaps these spooky, prescient words that inspire Tyrion’s “madness” to look off the edge of the world once more later?
- The Old Bear Opens a Vein
- Once, the Night’s Watch negotiated with dragonriding monarchs. Now, the Lord Commander in his most desperate hour is reduced to bribing the queen’s least favorite brother with a couple of guards to try and get the ear of the king.
- Mormont reveals the coldness we discussed in Jon III and how part of the weakness of the Watch is asking recruits to give up what tethers them to humanity while also devoting themselves to humanity:
- “Snow? Oh, the Stark bastard. I think not. The young ones need to forget the lives they left behind them, the brothers and mothers and all that. A visit home would only stir up feelings best left alone. I know these things. My own blood kin … my sister Maege rules Bear Island now, since my son's dishonor. I have nieces I have never seen."
- And that weakness extends to the Kingsguard and knighthood in general
- "So many vows . . . they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other."
- The Wall itself is too big for such a small force to defend, recasting the initial quiet horror of it (who built that? what’s on the other side? what do you need a 700-foot-high ice wall to stop?) as a grotesque white elephant a la Harrenhal
- Tyrion plays rationalist, the Luwin to Mormont’s Osha/Jojen
- Tyrion and His Friend Jon
- In both cases, he’s being asked to deliver a message, but this one is personal instead of political
- It undoubtedly reminds Tyrion of Jaime and himself
- So this is the one he carries out, and an unlikely bond is forged, an optimistic moment, in the face of...
- The Dreadful Sublime
- What Mormont’s words could not accomplish, the sight of the haunted forest does: Tyrion believes, if only for a moment
- There’s a meta show-don’t-tell aspect to this, where GRRM wants you to *feel* the Others even when they’re not there, instead of just hearing about them
- Just as Jon swallowed his pride, Tyrion here swallows his snark(s)
- His sudden dread is connected to “no fires burning anywhere”
- The chapter ultimately makes us feel that the world is ending and we aren’t ready
Likes/Dislikes
Like: Tyrion’s relationship to kindness v. mockery is something that repeatedly comes up throughout his story and really comes into focus here. He mocks Ser Alliser as a defense mechanism and is accused of mocking the Watch as a whole, he’s taken aback by Maester Aemon’s kindness and the LC’s vulnerability, and ultimately he’s touched by Jon’s friendship, leading to his generous gift in Bran IV. It grounds his character given that, at this point, he’s the least motivated of the POVs--he came to the Wall just because, he’s leaving with the same lack of urgency, he goes for one last look for reasons even he can’t explain.
Like: I prefer the second act of this chapter to the first, and it hits some great emotional notes: subtext for Jon’s feeling of sadness over his missing uncle, his pleas for Tyrion to help Bran in any way he can, Tyrion’s sad note of “Who will go find you” when Jon declares that he’ll take Ghost with him to find Benjen. Those emotional beats hit well with me. Now, I do like the table discussion, and I think there’s a super haunting quality in what Mormont is telling Tyrion, but there’s something off about it.
Dislike: I wish GRRM had cut the bit where LC Mormont directly references the white walkers. Not only would it be spookier and more effective to end that part of the conversation with “running from what,” but it’s hard to reconcile with his actions. If he’s heard and believes that the Others are back, why is he talking to Tyrion Lannister instead of Eddard Stark? Hell, why has Benjen not impressed that upon Ned? It shouldn’t be on Osha to try and transmit this extremely urgent message to the people most capable of doing something about it.
One million percent agree, and that’s my major dislike about this chapter. The way it reads, it’s not even a moment where George is communicating that Mormont may not all that great of a leader. That comes around later during the mission creep phase of the Night’s Watch mission beyond the Wall. No, it’s building tension and suspense - which it does! - where it doesn’t work is that this scene only works in a vacuum where Ned Stark, Robert, raven communication, a kingsroad that runs to the North doesn’t exist. The problem is that we know that Mormont and Ned are in communication in this very chapter!
"Gared was near as old as I am and longer on the Wall," he went on, "yet it would seem he forswore himself and fled. I should never have believed it, not of him, but Lord Eddard sent me his head from Winterfell.”
I don’t normally pick on George for writing, because he’s truly a master, but damn.
Foreshadowing/Groundwork
As in Jon III, we see animosity growing between Tyrion and Alliser Thorne, which will have such heavy consequences come ACOK
Hints of Bowen/Thorne alliance that will be prominent in the LC election in ASOS:
“I have seen dead men with more humor than your Ser Alliser."
"Not so," objected the Lord Steward, Bowen Marsh, a man as round and red as a pomegranate. "You ought to hear the droll names he gives the lads he trains."
Do Maester Aemon’s comments about Tyrion portend him playing a role in the battle for the dawn, or hint at his potential Targaryen heritage? Speaking of the former, what about this?
As he stood there and looked at all that darkness with no fires burning anywhere, with
the wind blowing and the cold like a spear in his guts, Tyrion Lannister felt as though he
could almost believe the talk of the Others, the enemy in the night. His jokes of
grumkins and snarks no longer seemed quite so droll.
“When I was a boy,” Tyrion replied, “my wet nurse told me that one day, if men were good, the gods would give the world a summer without ending. Perhaps we’ve been better than we thought, and the Great Summer is finally at hand.”
What do we think is going to happen to the seasons at series’ end, if anything?
Great Ranging Foreshadowing from Mormont:
Of Royce, there is no word. One deserter and two men lost, and now Ben Stark too has gone missing." He sighed deeply. "Who am I to send searching after him? In two years I will be seventy. Too old and too weary for the burden I bear.
Which leads into Jon Snow as Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch foreshadowing:
Yet if I set [the burden] down, who will pick it up? Alliser Thorne? Bowen Marsh? I would have to be as blind as Maester Aemon not to see what they are. The Night's Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead.
Jon fulfills all of Mormont’s criteria here, and that’s intentional on Martin’s part. In our previous Jon chapter, Mormont notes that “I’m told you can read” when he gives the letter to Bran. We’re in early stages, but perhaps Mormont’s fears are the kernels which blossom into Jon upcoming assignment as the Lord Commander’s steward.
But we get more direct foreshadowing of Jon becoming LC Snow when Jon tells Tyrion:
"Tell Robb that I'm going to command the Night's Watch and keep him safe, so he might as well take up needlework with the girls and have Mikken melt down his sword for horseshoes.”
Theory/Discussion
NW: Meritocratic???
Alliser Thorne training the boys?
Waymar Royce leading his first ranging as soon as he got to the Wall
"I sent Benjen Stark to search after Yohn Royce's son, lost on his first ranging. The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I."
Conclusion
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Comments
Ser Biffy Clegane
Lastly, it IS kind of bizarre that once Lord Commander Mormon and Maester Aemon said "we were attacked by zombies," they didn't get at least some substantive response. I think that the North was at war with the Crown at thar point, but at a minimum, you would think that the Citadel would send a team based on the word of Mormont and Aemon that the dead were walking.
Ser Biffy Clegane
The political problems with the Knight's Watch seem baked in - anything that gets past the Wall is the North's problem, so the temptation has to be to slack off south of the Neck. Prior to the Conquest, their numbers seem to have been boosted by wars among the seven kingdoms, where the wall could deplete your opponent of his or her non-ransomable fighting forces, and immediately after the Conquest, Aegon used it for that purpose and to unite the Realm, but the farther away they got from the Conquest, the less motive anyone outside of the North would have to commit resources to the Wall.
Ser Biffy Clegane
Great podcast, but I do think that Emmett gets a little carried away with the poetry of "Ned should be calling his banners to fight the true enemy, etc." Part of the tragedy is that normally the rational thing to do is NOT overreact to spooky news - over the last 8,000 years, there must have been dozens or hundreds of threat levels as high as "fisherfolk say they've seen white walkers, wildings are acting weird, and two small ranging squads are missing."
