NotAPodcast
patreon
Episode 45: A GAME OF THRONES, EDDARD XII: "Save the Children" SHOW NOTES!
🕑 Added 2019-01-07 15:01:01 +0000 UTCYou like that new intro music? Yeah, you do. With 2019, we get a new intro song that starts our year, and that song is by ASOIAF fan and music enthusiast Intermissions, and the song is called “Summer Child”. Hope you like the new intro!
Hello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish.
And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.
Welcome to our forty-fifth episode of the Not A Cast entitled: “Save the Children”: An Analysis of AGOT, Eddard XII, in which Ned Stark has a fateful meeting with Cersei Lannister in the King’s Landing godswood.
This episode is brought to you by our Small Council: Hand of the King WolfmanZack, Grand Maester Timothy W, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Mark N. Lord Travis, Master of Ships and Warden of the Waves, Ser Keith J, Master of Whisperers, Lord Philip the Merciful, Master of Laws, Jancy O, Lady Commander of the Night’s Watch and Archmaester June, Healer of the Lesser Poxes, Ragged Michael, Warden of the North.
Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show. Anything and everything!
Question
Ser Thomas H, one of our Sworn Swords asks:
Hello Jeff and Emmet,
Hope you guys had a great holiday I just had question for the cast about the death of Cersei and by extension Jamie as you guys discussed in your holiday special it’s inevitable that Cersei will die in TWOW and it seems clear to me that Jamie will be the one to do it. My question is how does Jamie survive after he kills his sister? As it seems likely Robert Strong will be involved to some extent in Cersei’s Kings Landing plot line at which point it can be inferred that he will be present with her when She decides to nuke Kings landing with wildfire. Leading Jamie to kill her to save the innocents of Kings Landing, Which will cause zombie Mountain to attack Jamie. So it seems unlikely to me that Jamie will best an undead Gregor and he will go out in a similar fashion to how Breinne did in AFFC a no chance no choice moment if you will but I don’t think he’ll be saved like she was. So what do you guys think is that totally bogus and a bad theory or does that idea hold validity to it?
Synopsis
Well, well, well, we come to Hot Pie’s favorite line in all of ASOIAF: when you play the game of thrones, you win or you pie. That’s the line, right?
Anyways, let’s get into it, shall we?
Lord Eddard Stark is examined by Grand Maester Pycelle who tells Ned that pain means that the leg is healing. But here, Ned, here’s some drugs for you in case the pain gets too intense. You should probably take a nap for a long time. No need to get all bothered by events in the realm. You just need your sleep. Oh, and BTW, Tywin Lannister wrote to Cersei. He’s pissed about you sending men after Gregor.
Let him be wroth. Let him write all the letters to the queen he lies. Lord Beric rides beneath the king’s own banner. If Lord Tywin attempts to interfere with the king’s justice, he will have Robert to answer to. The only thing His Grace enjoys more than hunting is making war on lords who defy him.
Pycelle shrinks away from Ned, telling Ned that he’ll be back the next day. He heads out, and Ned is sure he’s off to Cersei to inform on him. Ned now knows that Pycelle is a Lannister toady and thinks that Pycelle’s told him about the letter on the queen’s orders. He hopes that his angry retort will reach Cersei, but he’s not all that confident about what Robert will do.
Ned calls for a glass of honeyed wine and thinks about what Jon Arryn might have done if he were in similar circumstances as he was in. Perhaps Jon Arryn had tried to act given what he knew and had died for it. He thinks back to Sansa’s words about Joffrey not being the least bit like that old, drunken king, and he knows he has the truth of it. When Sansa was older, Ned would tell her how she helped unravel things.
And now let’s take a moment to be sad. Alright. Moment’s over. Back to business, you misty-eyed emotion-havers.
Ned wonders whether this was the sword that killed Jon Arryn, and he thinks this will end up killing Robert in a slower way which, of course, is not foreshadowing. And then Lord Creepyfinger the Monster comes to Ned’s chambers.
He’s off to lunch with Lady Tanda who wants to pawn her daughter Lollys off on him, so he can’t stay long (thank God). Littlefinger gives Ned a bit more intelligence on the comings and goings of the realm. More sellswords and freeriders are streaming towards Casterly Rock, and Robert is still absent. He was chasing some white hart, but the wolves got to it first. But Robert had heard about this massive boar somewhere deep in the forest, and he’s going to go hunt the bejesus out of it. Meanwhile, Joffrey, Ser Balon Swann and 20 other bros from the King’s Party have returned to the Red Keep.
The Hound? Ned asks.
Yeah. Sandor Clegane is back. He went straight to Cersei’s chambers when he got back, and man, wouldn’t it have been totally awesome to see his reaction knowing that Beric was going off to kill his brother? No, not really. Gregor was Sandor’s to kill. So, Ned won’t get any thanks for the Hound for dispatching men after Gregor. And with that Littlefinger departs …
No, wait. One last thing. As he leaves, Littlefinger looks at the book that Ned has on his table. The Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms, With Descriptions of Many High Lords and Noble Ladies and Their Children. Littlefinger thinks it’s a bore of a read, but Ned decides to test Littlefinger. He tells Littlefinger that it was the last book Jon Arryn was reading before he got sick.
In that case, death must have come as a blessed relief. Littlefinger says like an asshole, before dipping out.
Ned curses to himself and thinks he really can’t trust anyone in King’s Landing. Sure, Littlefinger had been helpful to Ned in finding Robert’s bastards. But he’d run off like a coward when Jaime showed up. Meanwhile, Varys knew too much and did too little. Pycelle was Cersei’s creature and Barristan was old, rigid and would probably tell Ned to do his duty. And time … time was running short. Robert would be back soon, and Ned would have to tell Robert about everything.
Thankfully though, Sansa and Arya would be sailing in three days. And Ned couldn’t use the excuse that their safety was at risk anymore. Besides, he’d dreamed of Rhaegar’s children the night prior and how Tywin had laid their bodies beneath the Iron Throne. Cleverly, Tywin had used crimson cloaks to wrap the bodies; so the blood couldn’t be easily seen. But Ned had seen Rhaenys barefoot and Aegon … it was too hard to even recount what happened to him. And he would never allow that to happen again. Ned would save the children.
But how? Sure, Robert had pardoned rebel lords and people who fought against him during Robert’s Rebellion, but the betrayal that Cersei committed? No, He will kill them all. Robert had never forgiven Rhaegar, and he would never forgive Cersei. He would do his duty to Robert, to Jon Arryn and to Bran who probably figured out some of the truth.
Later that afternoon, Ned summons Tomard, his portly Captain of the Guards. He’s not so sure about Tomard given that he’s nearly 50 and was never quite the dude that Jory and Alyn were. Maybe Ned shouldn’t have been so quick to send his own household guard after Gregor. Hm, yeah. Maybe, Ned. Maybe. Regardless, Ned wants to be taken to the godswood. When he gets there, he has other commands for Tomard. First, the guard needs to be doubled. No one gets in or out of the Tower of the Hand without Ned’s leave. When Tomard protests, Ned says it’ll only be for a short time.
And then Ned asks for Tomard to deliver a letter. Tomard blinks and starts to protest, but Ned orders him to do as he was bid. Captain Tomard departs, and Ned enjoys the quiet of the godswood. It’s peaceful here. Birds sing, crickets chirp, leaves rustle. It’s basically a Disney nature scene besides that it’s a bit artificial given that it’s within the Red Keep. But his leg doesn’t hurt so much with the peace and quiet until …
She came to him at sunset, as the clouds reddened above the wall and towers. She came alone, as he had bid her.
And who is this mysterious woman who’s come to Ned? Well, let’s see. She’s dressed simply for once. And she still has the bruise where the king had struck her. So, it’s Quaithe. Wow! Forgot she was in Book 1.
No, it’s not Quaithe. It’s Cersei, and she wants to know why Ned’s summoned her here.
So the gods can see, Ned replies.
Cersei sits beside Ned, and man, does she look fetching. But that’s not why Ned’s brought her here. Ned knows the truth that Jon Arryn died for. What is truth, Pontius Cersei asks. Is Ned here to take Cersei prisoner? No. He’s not. Ned reaches up to her face. Has he done this before. Yeah. Once or twice, Cersei replies. But never on the face. Not where it can be seen. If he’d done that, Jaime would have killed him. And then we finally get it.
My brother is worth a hundred of your friend.
Your brother, Ned said. Or your lover.
Both. Since we were children together. And why not? The Targaryens wed brother to sister for three hundred years to keep the bloodlines pure. And Jaime and I are more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies. We shared a womb together. He came into this world holding my foot, our old maester said. When he is in me, I feel … whole.
Man, I wish I could read the entire last third of this chapter. Alas. Ned asks about Bran, and Cersei tells Ned the truth. He saw her and Jaime. You love your children, do you not? Of course, Ned does. And if it was Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon, what would he do? If it were Jon’s life against Catelyn’s kids, what would he do? Ned prays he’ll never know.
All three are Jaime’s, Ned says in non-questioning terms.
Yup, all three. Thank the gods. And now Ned brings it home. Jon Arryn’s The seed is strong was about Robert’s bastards. And when Ned had looked at the ponderous goddamn book about the lineages of the Seven Kingdoms, any and all pairings between Baratheon and Lannister had produced black-haired children. No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittled yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal.
Ned asks how it’s been that Cersei didn’t have a single child by Robert. Well, Cersei had gotten pregnant by Robert once and had gotten an abortion when that happened. And she had found ways to sex Robert without sexing him if you know what I mean. She did oral and handsies, guys ICYWW.
Ned feels sick to his stomach, but he asks Cersei what caused her to hate Robert so. Ah, about that. On their wedding night, Robert got stinking drunk and when he was inside of Cersei, he whispered the name of Lyanna. And Ned thinks of pale blue roses and wants to weep. Pause. Jeez, this chapter, man. It’s wretching. I mean, it’s great. But it’s gut punches and pathos followed by more gut punches and pathos.
Ahem. Well, Ned pities Cersei and Robert, not sure which one he pities more. And Ned tells Cersei that she knows what he must do. Ah, but do you, Ned? Cersei does Cersei things and attempts to seduce Ned which … wow, read the goddamn room, Cersei. Ned refuses her, asking if she made the same offer to Jon Arryn which then causes Cersei to slap Ned.
I shall wear that as a badge of honor, Ned says dryly.
Oh, honor? How honorable are you, Ned Stark? You have a bastard of your own. Did you rape some Dornish peasant while her holdfast burned? Was it some sex worker that you got Jon on? Ashara Dayne? Is that why Ashara threw herself into the sea? For the brother you slew, or the child you stole? How is Ned any different than Robert or her or Jaime?
For a start, said Ned, I do not kill children.
God, I fucking love Ned. And Ned gives her clear instructions: get the fuck out of dodge, because I’m telling Robert when he gets back. Take your children, take your brothers, take your father. Take the whole rotten mess of godless Lannisters with you. Go the Free Cities or the Summer Islands or the Port of Ibben. Get the fuck out, Cersei. You’re D-U-N. Done!
Exile. A bitter cup to drink from, Cersei says.
Yeah. But it ain’t as bad as what your father did to Rhaegar’s kid. And it’s kinder than you deserve. But leave now. Robert’s wrath will follow you to the ends of the earth and beyond if needs be.
And what of my wroth, Lord Stark, Cersei Lannister asks, getting to her feet.
In Cersei’s mind, Ned made a huge blunder. He could have taken the Iron Throne. He had it in his grasp, but he didn’t. He fucked up. So sad.
I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine, but that was not one of them.
Oh no. That was a mistake, Ned.
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.
Cersei turns from Ned, puts her hood up and leaves him in the dark and quiet of the godswood as the stars come out.
And that is AGOT, Eddard XII: the holy shit of a fucking chapter, man.
Depth
We have arrived! This is the central chapter of AGOT, as the Stannis-Renly showdown is the center of ACOK and the kingsmoot is the center of AFFC. This is the one where the secrets are revealed, where our protagonist takes his brave dangerous stand, where the title phrase “game of thrones” is finally dropped. I’m gonna quote film critic Eric Hynes: Eddard XII “consolidates the full expanse of the project’s themes and ideas. All of these plates that have been spinning furiously are stacked neatly before us—right before they’re flung against the wall.”
- But first, we check in with the major movements of the plot in the wake of Eddard XI
- Pycelle informs Ned that Tywin is furious about the men sent after Gregor
- No naive Ned here--he knows perfectly well that Pycelle is doing so on Cersei’s orders, and sends a strong response back despite his internal doubts about Robert
- You can bet that Pycelle’s first order of business was to send word to Tywin immediately after letting Cersei know what Ned’s plan was. That he receives a response so quickly works in subtle concert with the overt toady-ness that is Pycelle.
- That does establish, of course, that all of Ned’s moves here are built on having Robert at his back, and Robert’s gonna be on his deathbed in Ned’s next chapter
- Littlefinger passes on that Sandor has returned to the city with Joffrey (a dark omen and absolutely essential to what will come to pass)
- Does this animate Sandor’s ferocity when Ned and his men come into the throneroom? Hm.
- Sandor’s desire for revenge on Gregor above all else dovetails with what Ned is preparing to tell Robert, as does Robert’s fury at the wolves (get it?) devouring his prey first and so leading him further into the kingswood
- We’re reaching the moment foretold by the stag v. direwolf image in Bran I
- “He needed to be able to think”
- This chapter is focused above all else on what Ned does with the information given him (as he says) by an unknowing innocent
- Sansa’s revelation thus crosses the line between innocent and fallen that defines AGOT
- It’s so central to the themes of ASOIAF that Ned is afraid not of what his foes might do to his children, but what his friend might to do his foe’s children
- His duty seems clear--alert his beloved king to the treason that strikes at the heart of succession--but he hesitates out of horror at the consequences
- It is not merely that this is the core of the coup against Robert, it is that this kind of betrayal won’t even kill Robert cleanly--it will hollow out his soul
- Shattered legs may heal in time, but some betrayals fester and poison the soul.
- For Robert, this would be the ultimate indignity and unmanning, and the echo of the Targaryens he hates only compounds it
- He will kill them all, Ned realized.
- Ned’s fear is that this betrayal and its aftermath will complete the transformation of Robert into Aerys, the final nail in the coffin for the Rebellion, finalizing the rotting process that began with the murder of Rhaegar’s children
- And of course, under the surface (as with Robert ordering Dany’s death) there is Ned’s fear for Jon’s life as Rhaegar’s hidden heir
- The boy...the boy…
- The circle closes
- All Ned can do is go back to the godswood, in the simple hope for witness and strength, his “mighty pillar” in moments of chaos as it is for Aeron Damphair
- He was by a weirwood when he first learned of these intertwining conspiracy, and so it is here that the truth is laid out
- Will Bran see this moment in the weirwood root cave in TWOW?
- This is where Varys’ spies cannot touch, where the blood-red stone of the Red Keep is replaced by the calm hums of nature
- Puts Varys at disadvantage of things to come (though ofc, Varys knows the truth about Cersei’s kids)
- When Cersei arrives, this theme of veils falling to reveal the truth continues
- Once more, Ned starts not with her sins but Robert’s
- This ambiguity is deepened when Ned is forced to question what he would do if his own children were threatened
- When Cersei fully confesses, Ned is heartsick, pushing past the political ramifications to the personal
- And Cersei’s response? What else would it be?
- This leads to my favorite moment in the chapter:
- I’ve talked before about how the false spring before the Rebellion can be seen as analogous to the “summer of love” era in American culture
- This is the youth and nostalgia that everyone in this generation is longing for, from Robert to Jaime to Barbrey to Jon Connington
- What Ned realizes in this moment, what he’s been building up to the entire book from that trip to the crypts forward, is that this longing has broken his generation
- This would be the equivalent to the hippie dream fading and getting corrupted in the 70s and 80s
- How did we come to this, Ned wonders? We were so full of life. How now are we so full of death?
- Wrath of a lioness
- Cersei makes a play to get Ned on her side, one of several offers he will refuse over the chapters before his downfall in the throne room
- On the one hand, this reflects (as Varys will say in the black cells) that Cersei considers Renly and especially Stannis to be the true dangers
- On the other, unless Cersei honestly thinks Ned’s going to be down with Robert’s death, she might just be playing for time until she can remove him too
- When Ned refuses because he thinks she killed Jon Arryn (lol), she argues that ultimately Ned is no better than her because of the Jon situation
- Ironically, the truth of the Jon situation demonstrates that Ned *is* different
- He proves it again by offering mercy to her and her children
- And again by proclaiming it no mistake to have refused the throne for himself
- We love Ned in this moment even while recognizing how vulnerable this leaves him
- How can you not love a man who resists easy temptations and stubbornly sticks to doing the right thing?
Foreshadowing/Groundwork
R+L=J watch: Ned does not list Jon among his children when wondering what he would do to save their lives
Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body?
Note how quickly the conversation moves away from the topic of Jon Arryn, without Cersei ever confirming that she was involved in his death…
Reader is led to believe that this is Cersei obfuscating. Maybe she was really asking!
Her eyes burned, green fire in the dark as wildfire foreshadowing?
Theory/Discussion
All right folks, we thought we’d follow up our enlightening discussion with Steven Attewell in the last Ned chapter with the question to end all questions: is Eddard Stark just a dummy with more honor than sense for doing what he does in this chapter?
Hell no. Despite what Varys says in Ned’s final chapter, this mercy did not get Robert killed. Lancel and Tyrek have already been dispatched with the fortified strongwine. As Varys correctly says, Cersei couldn’t have afforded to let Robert live much longer. Stannis and Renly are accelerating their plans, and she needs control of King’s Landing in order to deal with them.
As such, Ned’s not responsible for Robert’s death, and if it weren’t for Robert’s death, this play might have worked. And while it’s naive of him to expect not only Cersei and her kids but also Lord Tywin to run for it, he does prove prepared to back it up by force when Robert is removed from the board. Unfortunately, he gambles wrong on Littlefinger’s loyalties.
It distresses me when I see the takeaway from Ned’s storyline being that mercy is stupid, that evil will always triumph because good is dumb. The title of this week’s episode comes not only from Ned’s thoughts but also a Marvin Gaye song “Save the Children.” It’s on the classic album What’s Going On, which was all about expressing heartache and confusion but also deep abiding love in the face of Vietnam, the backlash to the civil rights movement, etc. In the midst of so much chaotic uncertainty, the guiding light is to save the children. Hold on to that, even as all else crumbles around you. Mercy, mercy: me.
That’s what Ned does, and that is not wrong. What’s wrong is failing to back it up, because doing the right thing without a plan can easily make things worse. The shining example here is Davos in ASOS, who both smuggles Edric Storm away and comes to Stannis with a better way to save the realm. In many ways, that plotline feels like a natural sequel to Ned’s. “Mercy is never a mistake,” as Ned says himself. The mistake he makes here is political, not moral.
The role of PTSD. The boy, the boy. Just because you got your head fucked with by trauma, doesn’t mean you’re wrong to object to the same trauma being repeated again.
Conclusion
- Thanks for listening!
- Rate and review us on itunes, google play, etc
- Patreon/advertise/where we can find our work/social media
- Follow us on social media (Make sure to mention @NotACastASOIAF and our e mail: NotACastASOIAF@gmail.com)
- Join us next time as Dany devours a heart and loses a brother in Daenerys V where we’ll be joined again by our friend LML!
