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Episode 31: A GAME OF THRONES, TYRION IV: "Never Bet Against the Lannisters"
🕑 Added 2018-09-17 14:01:00 +0000 UTC Hello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish.And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.
Welcome to our thirty-first episode of the Not A Cast entitled: “Never Bet Against the Lannisters: An Analysis of AGOT, Tyrion IV,” in which Tyrion Lannister rides as a captive of Catelyn’s Stark’s to the Vale, gets ambushed by Mountain Clansmen and sows doubt in Catelyn’s mind about whether he actually sent the catspaw to kill Bran. This episode is brought to you all by our Lords Commander Mark N, Timothy W, Hayden J, WolfmanZack, and Joe L. Thank you, gentlemen!
Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show. Anything and everything!
Questions
Ser Travis the Investigator, a Sworn Sword asks:
In your Catelyn V episode, you discussed Hoster Tully a bit. I've always been intrigued with his character and absolutely love his name. It really gives a sense of this big, strong presence.
Catelyn remembers traveling the Riverlands with her father. We see Hoster as a sick, weak, aged man in the series who ultimately passes away. Catelyn's memories are of the virile and proud man who was once her father.
My question pertains to how things might have been different if Hoster Tully wasn't in the condition he is when we first meet him. How do you think he would have handled Tywin Lannister, the retreat of Lysa to the Eyrie, Catelyn's suspicions, Ned's imprisonment, Walder's support, and the Blackfish's return, etc.?
Synopsis
Tyrion Lannister watches angrily as Chiggen, a sellsword, butchers his horse, thinking that this is yet another debt the Starks will owe him. When Bronn, another sellsword, states that horse meat is good eating, Tyrion snarks that he’s not a Dothraki and not fond of eating his own horse -- especially one that his brother Jaime gifted to him on his twenty-third name day. But eating horse is not the only thing that’s going wrong for Tyrion. It’s growing cold up here in the mountains. And Tyrion is tired from all the previous riding and the riding to come. And who knew what awaited them at the end of the journey to Eyrie.
Damn her, Tyrion mutters. Damn her and all the Starks
Tyrion then recalls events right after the swords were drawn on him back at the Inn at the Crossroads. Tyrion’s man Jyck reached for his sword, but then Masha Heddle had shrieked for everyone to put away their swords. Tyrion had pushed Jyck’s arm down to ensure that he wasn’t murdered at that moment and cautioned Catelyn that she was making a mistake. He had nothing to do with the attack on Bran. On his honor as a Lannister.
Well, that went over as well as shitting your pants at a funeral. Catelyn had held her scarred hands up, telling everyone that the dagger had left these marks on her. And everyone reacted with reasonable anger that Tyrion felt. And though people cried out for Tyrion’s death, he had managed to talk his way out of the business end of a sword.
If Lady Stark believes I have some crime to answer for, I will go with her and answer for it.
Smart, Tyrion. But it’s the only recourse he can see. He can’t fight his way through a dozen swords with his three men. Scratch that. Two men. Yoren had stepped aside as befits the Night’s Watch role to take no part in the affairs of the realm.
Catelyn had ordered Tyrion’s men to surrender their weapons, and when they were disarmed, Tyrion recognized Ser Rodrik Cassel voice when he said “Good.” Masha Heddle again protested for Tyrion not to be killed her. Don’t kill him anywhere, Tyrion urges in response. But that’s not the plan. They’re going to Winterfell, Catelyn loudly tells everyone.
But it was only in that moment that Tyrion took full stock of the room, and he was not altogether displeased. Though a dozen swords had been drawn, there was about fifty people in the room. And the two Frey men who had initially drawn their swords had sat their happy, traitorous asses back down on the benches when their captain didn’t move.
Tyrion agrees to Winterfell, thinking that much can happen on the long road up to the ancient castle. And he tells the assembled crowd that his father Tywin would wonder what had become of Tyrion. And Tywin would pay a reward to the people who bring him the news. Of course, Tywin, being the puckered asshole of Westeros that he is, wouldn’t do shit, but Tyrion would do his part to reward whoever brought Tywin the news.
In response, Ser Rodrik had appealed for everyone to shut their mouths, but Tyrion knew better. Someone talks. Someone always talks. Perhaps it would be the freerider he paid the gold to, perhaps the singer who was looking to earn favor from a high lord, and those Freys would definitely tell Lord Walder what had happened. But they were off to ride regardless of how word reached Lord Tywin.
Outside, the party mounted horses, and Tyrion’s hands were bound. Tyrion was just about to congratulate himself on his cunning, but then a hood had been placed over his head, and they had ridden off in a hard gallop. And the journey was a horror. Rain soaked through the hood, and every time they made a turn in the road, he had nearly fallen off his horse while the rope tied around his wrists bit into his skin.
The next morning, they had dismounted and pulled the hood from Tyrion’s head. And … Tyrion saw something he didn’t expect. Instead of the kingsroad, it was a stony, narrow road with foothills all around him and mountains in the distance.
The eastern road. You said we were riding for Winterfell!
Well, yeah, Catelyn did say that loudly. Kind of the point, dude. If his father got word that Tyrion was going to Winterfell, his men would be galloping the wrong way.
Flashing back to the present, Tyrion still felt an acute anger at being tricked. Deceived. Trick makes it sound like Catelyn and Tyrion have a playful relationship. Now in the mountains, there’s no need for a hood. The land was mountainous, harsh, wild, and there were wild beasts and men about. But they kept moving. Always forward. Onto the Eyrie.
The land they were in technically was the domain of the Arryns. And though Jon Arryn was dead, Catelyn’s sister Lysa ruled in her son Robert’s name. Tyrion hadn’t known Lysa well back when the woman was living in King’s Landing, but he wasn’t looking forward to renewing his acquaintance with her all the same.
The party is stopped for the moment though. The men, woman and horses are exhausted, and they can’t lose another horse as they’ve already lost three. But Catelyn tells them that they’ll lose more than horses if they’re overtaken by Tywin’s men. Tyrion disagrees, thinking that any Lannister men are riding up towards Winterfell by now and is immediately told to shut the fuck up by Kurleket, a Bracken man-at-arms. Tyrion knew all their names by now. He had made it a point to know them to thank them at some juncture down the road.
But Catelyn says, no, let the imp speak. So, Tyrion tells them that his father’s men are in the wrong place if they’ve been dispatched at all. Even so, this land is dangerous. And if Tyrion dies, what’s the damn point of taking him prisoner? When Catelyn snaps that maybe the point is that Tyrion will die, the dwarf disagrees saying that if she really wanted him dead, she’d have had one of her men kill him earlier.
The Starks do not murder men in their beds, Catelyn says.
Neither does Tyrion. He had no part in the attempt on Bran’s knife. When Catelyn states that the assassin was armed with Tyrion’s dagger, Tyrion’s anger rekindles. It was not my dagger. How many times must I swear to that? Lady Stark, whatever you may believe of me, I am not a stupid man. Only a fool would arm a common footpad with his own blade.
Tyrion sees doubt in Catelyn’s eyes, but Lady Stark asks Tyrion why Littlefinger would lie to her. Well, because he’s a fucking liar. You should know that, Catelyn. And why should she know that, she asks. Because the dude had told everyone at court that he had taken Catelyn’s virginity.
Catelyn is outraged. That is a lie! Kurleket drew his blade then and told Catelyn that he will take the dwarf’s tongue at her word. Catelyn Stark never answer Kurleket, instead acknowledging that Petyr Baelish loved her once, but it was real and pure and not to be made fun of. Why are you so mean, Tyrion. Why are you so foolish, Tyrion replies. Littlefinger boasts of fucking Catelyn all over the Red Keep.
When Kurleket then grabs Tyrion’s hair and holds a dagger to his throat, asking if he can bleed him, Tyrion gasps that if they kill him, any secrets die with him. So, Kurleket lets Tyrion go, and Tyrion asks Catelyn what Littlefinger told her about the dagger and how Tyrion had gotten it. Well, Tyrion had gotten it during a wager during the tourney at Prince Joffrey’s name day. Tyrion remembers, thinking back to when Jaime was unhorsed by Loras Tyrell, but just before he can pursue the thought further …
Riders!
Uh-oh. Mountain clansmen are approaching, and the party is outgunned. Tyrion calls for Catelyn to arm him and his two guards. Rodrik hears them approach, guesstimating that it’s twenty to twenty five mounted on horses. Milk Snakes or Moon Brothers by his account. Give me your word that you will put down your swords again after the fight is done, Catelyn demands. Lol, okay, sure, Tyrion says with a crooked grin. On his honor as a Lannister.
For a moment, Tyrion thinks Catelyn will spit in his face, but just then, she orders Rodrik to arm them. Bronn gives Tyrion an axe, tell him to pretend he’s splitting logs. Tyrion takes his place in the rear alongside of the now-cowardly Marrillion. And then the riders are on them.
Arrows fly. Castle names are shouted. Frightened horses scream. Chiggen’s sword kills a clansmen while Bronn whirls into the lot of them, killing men left and right. Arrows impact against the clansmen. A horseman rides on Tyrion, and he hits the animal with his axe at the neck, sending rider and horse sprawling onto a terrified Marrillion. Tyrion steps over and buries his axe in the rider’s neck, and Marrillion moans that he thinks he’s bleeding. But he’s not. It’s only horse blood. Tyrion tells the singer to pretend he’s dead and gets back to fighting and observing the fight.
The battle runs in a blur after that. Blood, shouts, screams, arrows, swords, Bronn fighting, his man Jyck cut down from behind, Kurleket is dead now too. But then he heard the screams of a woman. Tyrion turns to see that Catelyn is up against the stone face of the mountain with two dismounted and one mounted man maneuvering on her.
For a hot minute, Tyrion thinks that he’ll be okay with Catelyn dying, but even as he’s thinking this, he’s moving. His axe takes one clan dude in the back of the knee, another slashes at him, but Tyrion slashes back, and the man falls back until Catelyn comes up from behind and slits his throat like the goddamn badass woman who was only wrong that one time does. (Man, I’d forgotten this. Foreshadow much, George?) And the rider bravely runs away.
Anyways, the skirmish is about over at that point. Bronn is pull Jyck’s nice boots off. He notices Tyrion and asks if it was his first battle. It was. Well, now you need a woman, Bronn tells the Imp. Tyrion glances over at Catelyn. I’m willing if she is. When Bronn laughs, Tyrion begins to see the shape of something to come.
Anyways, the survivors take stock of their attackers. Dented armor, notched swords, scrawny horses and starving men. The clansmen had lost nine men to their three. Ser Willis Wode urges Catelyn to press on, but Cat wants to bury the men who saved her life. No fucking time, Cat, and the ground is too rocky anyways. When Catelyn persists, Bronn threatens to ride away. And Catelyn finally relents after Ser Rodrik joins with the others in urging Catelyn to move out before the shadowcats or more clansmen attack.
But now with all these dead men about, they have horses again. Tyrion mounts Jyck’s spotted gelding. Lharys, another Bracken men, catches Tyrion still holding onto his dirk. He asks for it, but Catelyn tells Lharys that he can keep it and to give him the axe to boot. They made need it. When Tyrion tries to thank Catelyn, she tells him to save his courtesies. She doesn’t trust him.
They ride out again, and Tyrion rides up to Marrillion the Coward. Craven rhymes nicely with raven. The Imp then rides forward on up to Catelyn and Ser Rodrik to tell Catelyn something very important.
As I was saying before we were so rudely interrupted, there is a serious flaw in Littlefinger’s fable. Whatever you may believe of me, Lady Stark, I promise you this - I never bet against my family.
And that is AGOT, Tyrion IV: a chapter which both sells us on the danger of travel in Westeros while undermining Littlefinger’s lie about the catspaw dagger. I like it -- though not as much as Tyrion III or Tyrion V. What do you think, Emmett?
Depth
Agreed, it’s more of a transitional chapter than anything else, focused on the environment and the battle setpiece rather than the intimate character moments we got in Tyrion III or the first real life-on-the-line test of our POV’s intelligence in Tyrion V. Hard not to feel the tug back to the King’s Landing chapters, because that storyline has really just hit its stride with the Hand’s Tourney and is only going to grow more compelling as the book goes on. But there’s still a lot to like in Tyrion IV, especially Tyrion’s self-contained arc within the chapter as he goes from cursing Catelyn’s name to saving her life.
- A great followup to Catelyn V
- We open on the road, with the gripping image of the butchered horse grounding us in a dangerous environment
- Then we back up to fill in Tyrion’s side of the story
- The memory was still bitter. One moment he'd been ordering supper, and an eye blink later he was facing a room of armed men, with Jyck reaching for a sword and the fat innkeep shrieking, "No swords, not here, please, m'lords."
- And as with Jon (“I should be very grateful for your kind assistance”) Tyrion has to smile and play nice
- Tyrion wrenched down Jyck's arm hurriedly, before he got them both hacked to pieces. "Where are your courtesies, Jyck? Our good hostess said no swords. Do as she asks." He forced a smile that must have looked as queasy as it felt. "You're making a sad mistake, Lady Stark. I had no part in any attack on your son.”
- Tyrion felt the anger all around him, thick and smoky, fed by the deep cuts in the Stark woman's hands. "Kill him," hissed some drunken slattern from the back, and other voices took up the call, faster than he would have believed. Strangers all, friendly enough only a moment ago, and yet now they cried for his blood like hounds on a trail.
- Yet on the inside, he likes his chances
- "We are taking him back to Winterfell," she said, and Tyrion thought, Well, perhaps … By then he'd had a moment to glance over the room and get a better idea of the situation. He was not altogether displeased by what he saw. Oh, the Stark woman had been clever, no doubt of it. Force them to make a public affirmation of the oaths sworn her father by the lords they served, and then call on them for succor, and her a woman, yes, that was sweet. Yet her success was not as complete as she might have liked. There were close to fifty in the common room by his rough count. Catelyn Stark's plea had roused a bare dozen; the others looked confused, or frightened, or sullen. Only two of the Freys had stirred, Tyrion noted, and they'd sat back down quick enough when their captain failed to move. He might have smiled if he'd dared.
- Ser Rodrik glanced at his lady, his look worried, as well it might be. "His men come with him," the old knight announced. "And we'll thank the rest of you to stay quiet about what you've seen here."
It was all Tyrion could do not to laugh. Quiet? The old fool. Unless he took the whole inn, the word would begin to spread the instant they were gone. The freerider with the gold coin in his pocket would fly to Casterly Rock like an arrow. If not him, then someone else.
- So on the whole, it nicely counters the image we were left with at the end of Catelyn V: Tyrion as injured party rather than threat, noticing the holes in Catelyn’s stirring call to arms
- Tyrion’s resentments on the rise
- The chapter’s opening words focus on the vendetta taking hold:
- As he stood in the predawn chill watching Chiggen butcher his horse, Tyrion Lannister chalked up one more debt owed the Starks.
- Tyrion’s overall emotional state has shifted from the rueful world-weariness of his previous chapters to simmering rage:
- “Damn her,” he muttered as he struggled up the road to rejoin his captors, remembering, “damn her and all the Starks.”
- What a sorry fall from his kindness to Bran and his friendship with Jon!
- Now, of course, he’s entitled to be pissed off that he’s been kidnapped and endangered for a crime he didn’t commit. But there’s more to it than that:
- When he saw the narrow stony road, the foothills rising high and wild all around them, and the jagged snowcapped peaks on the distant horizon, all the hope went out of him in a rush. "This is the high road," he gasped, looking at Lady Stark with accusation. "The eastern road. You said we were riding for Winterfell!"
Catelyn Stark favored him with the faintest of smiles. "Often and loudly," she agreed. "No doubt your friends will ride that way when they come after us. I wish them good speed.
Even now, long days later, the memory filled him with a bitter rage. All his life Tyrion had prided himself on his cunning, the only gift the gods had seen fit to give him, and yet this seven-times-damned she-wolf Catelyn Stark had outwitted him at every turn. The knowledge was more galling than the bare fact of his abduction.
- When he saw the narrow stony road, the foothills rising high and wild all around them, and the jagged snowcapped peaks on the distant horizon, all the hope went out of him in a rush. "This is the high road," he gasped, looking at Lady Stark with accusation. "The eastern road. You said we were riding for Winterfell!"
- So his pride has been pricked, which adds a layer to our understanding of him
- The chapter’s opening words focus on the vendetta taking hold:
- A new kind of environment
- So hostile that it alone keeps Tyrion captive
- It seemed they did not fear his escape. And why should they? Up here the land was harsh and wild, and the high road little more than a stony track. If he did run, how far could he hope to go, alone and without provisions? The shadowcats would make a morsel of him, and the clans that dwelt in the mountain fastnesses were brigands and murderers who bowed to no law but the sword.
- We’re now outside the feudal order that gave rise to the Stark-Lannister feud
- Neither Catelyn’s confidence nor Tyrion’s cunning will avail them here
- Speaking of which...
- So hostile that it alone keeps Tyrion captive
- The she-wolf v. the little lion
- Finally, we get a Stark and a Lannister actually talking about what’s going on
- Starts by acknowledging that they’re both in danger now and at risk of having come this far for nothing
- "This is a cruel land, Lady Stark. You'll find no succor until you reach the Vale, and each mount you lose burdens the others all the more. Worse, you risk losing me. I am small, and not strong, and if I die, then what's the point?"
- Moves on to addressing the ethical ground on which they stand:
- "It might be said that your death is the point, Lannister," Catelyn Stark replied.
"I think not," Tyrion said. "If you wanted me dead, you had only to say the word, and one of these staunch friends of yours would gladly have given me a red smile." He looked at Kurleket, but the man was too dim to taste the mockery.
"The Starks do not murder men in their beds."
“Nor do I,” he said. “I tell you again, I had no part in the attempt to kill your son.”
- "It might be said that your death is the point, Lannister," Catelyn Stark replied.
- And then the real issue: Littlefinger, on whom they have opposing perspectives
- Catelyn Stark stared at Tyrion with a coldness on her face such as he had never seen. "Petyr Baelish loved me once. He was only a boy. His passion was a tragedy for all of us, but it was real, and pure, and nothing to be made mock of. He wanted my hand. That is the truth of the matter. You are truly an evil man, Lannister."
"And you are truly a fool, Lady Stark. Littlefinger has never loved anyone but Littlefinger, and I promise you that it is not your hand that he boasts of, it's those ripe breasts of yours, and that sweet mouth, and the heat between your legs."
- Catelyn Stark stared at Tyrion with a coldness on her face such as he had never seen. "Petyr Baelish loved me once. He was only a boy. His passion was a tragedy for all of us, but it was real, and pure, and nothing to be made mock of. He wanted my hand. That is the truth of the matter. You are truly an evil man, Lannister."
- This brings us right back to the romantic idealism v. disillusioned cynicism dynamic we spent so much time with in the Hand’s Tourney chapters
- Battle!
- Ramps up the scale of conflict from duels, while not quite at full-scale army-on-army combat--that’ll wait for a later Tyrion chapter
- A battle from the POV of a non-warrior
- Fought against people with no investment in the Stark-Lannister feud
- Indeed, they’re happy to prey on both
- And while Tyrion and Catelyn have the right to self-defense, they’ve brought their business onto clan lands
- So when Ser Rodrik cries “Winterfell!” should our hearts be in our throats? Or should we recognize the absurdity of him yelling that castle’s name at people who have probably never heard of it and have no investment in defending it nor tearing it down?
- And then Tyrion steps up to defend Catelyn
- Part instinctive decency
- Part desire to prove himself innocent (she seemed about to listen)
- Part curiosity about the manipulation that has brought them together
- One final hole punctured in the feudal order:
- "Gather all the stones you want," Bronn told her, "but do it without me or Chiggen. I've better things to do than pile rocks on dead men … breathing, for one." He looked over the rest of the survivors. "Any of you who hope to be alive come nightfall, ride with us."
"My lady, I fear he speaks the truth," Ser Rodrik said wearily. The old knight had been wounded in the fight, a deep gash in his left arm and a spear thrust that grazed his neck, and he sounded his age. "If we linger here, they will be on us again for a certainty, and we may not live through a second attack."
Tyrion could see the anger in Catelyn’s face, but she had no choice. “May the gods forgive us, then. We will ride at once.” - That kind of decorum doesn’t survive the mountains...nor the game of thrones
- "Gather all the stones you want," Bronn told her, "but do it without me or Chiggen. I've better things to do than pile rocks on dead men … breathing, for one." He looked over the rest of the survivors. "Any of you who hope to be alive come nightfall, ride with us."
Jeff’s catch of the week:
The Dothraki ate horse in truth; they also left deformed children out for the feral dogs who ran behind their khalasars. Dothraki customs had scant appeal for him.
Compare to:
Had I been born a peasant, they might have left me out to die, or sold me to some slaver's grotesquerie. (AGOT, Tyrion II)
Likes/Dislikes
Like: I’ve said before that Littlefinger making it out of this lie alive is a little eyebrow-raising, so I appreciate that GRRM grounds the communication breakdown between Tyrion and Catelyn in their personalities as well as their opposing politics. They almost realize what’s happening here, but Catelyn’s too proud and Tyrion’s temper is too quick; it’s believable they’d fall short.
Dislike: It’s a bit OTT for everyone at court to have heard the story about Catelyn’s maidenhead from Littlefinger, if for no other reason than you’d think Ned would hear about it and go back to holding a dagger to Lord Creepyfinger’s throat.
Like: I like how natural Tyrion and Bronn’s relationship develops here. It flows that Bronn and Tyrion are mutually impressed by the others’ strengths. Tyrion is impressed by Bronn’s feat of arms: “Bronn plunged through the clansmen like a whirlwind, cutting down foes right and left” while Bronn is impressed by Tyrion’s sardonic “I’m willing if she is” joke after the battle. That dynamic remains through AGOT, ACOK and ASOS.
Dislike: More of a dislike of the next Catelyn chapter than anything, but I’ll put it here as I already have a dislike in mind for that chapter. I love the end of this Tyrion chapter and how Tyrion says, “I never bet against my family,” but the doubt Tyrion seeds in Catelyn in this chapter over his involvement in Bran’s attempted murder doesn’t pan out so much. For some reason, Tyrion never gets cunning any more than here. The next chapter has him talking suspiciously about how he’s as innocent as a little lamb. It undercuts the doubt that GRRM and Tyrion are planting in Catelyn’s mind.
Foreshadowing/Groundwork
Little bit of trivia for you all. The character Kurleket, Lharys and Mohor. Notice anything about their names? If you guessed that they were homages to the Three Stooges: Curly, Larry and Moe, you are correct as George confirmed back in 2006:
Dear George, I'm new to your work and just started reading A Game of Thrones. I just ran across the names Kurleket, Lharys and Mohor. I'm sure I'm not the first to make the connection to the Three Stooges but, I did want you to know that I nearly fell on the floor with laughter. Thanks for the laughs! Are there more hidden characters? (I'm looking forward to the cameo appearances of Shempus and Kurle Johor.)
GRRM: The Three Stooges? In my book? C'mon, you've got to be kidding. Would I do something like that? That's a very tense chapter, charged with menace, what are you laughing for? If I were to insist that the names were purely a coincidence, you'd buy it, wouldn't you?
Okay, okay, what can I say? Guilty as charged. I don't know what came over me. I'm not even that big a Stooges fan (that's my friend Howard Waldrop). I much prefer Abbott and Costello... hmmm...wonder if I can work in Bud and Lou somewhere…
Obviously, the introduction of Bronn in this chapter will be of vital importance throughout Tyrion’s arc. When Bronn laughs at Tyrion’s joke, and Tyrion thinks “there’s a start”, it’ll end up being important for Tyrion’s trial by battle in Catelyn VII.
Catelyn Red Wedding Foreshadowing:
Catelyn stepped up behind him and opened his throat.
We see this where Catelyn saws Jinglebell’s throat open as well as when her own throat is opened by Raymund Frey.
Theory Discussion
Conclusion
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