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v3c25.2 How a Monkey Joined part 2

🕑 Added 2022-07-01 09:04:58 +0000 UTC

Comments

Thunderhoof

I want them to have a big shaggy dog. A good swimmer and will out bark Bi De in the morning.

Akki

I remember reading a Green Lantern comic ages ago which touched on this basically saying something like how fantasy worlds have intelligence engines which inhibit the technological advancements of these worlds. There was even an article which talked about the comic: https://screenrant.com/green-lantern-fantasy-medieval-plot-hole-explained/

Epsilon Rose

True, but that's just an example of making the best of a bad hand, not actually surpassing anyone. The glass is an example where the ancient version is definably worse.

Eilluna

I'm really enjoying this story arc. I know others aren't. But I like getting a closer look into the lore and history of the world.

Vector

Yes but fantasy civilisations are a bit weird as they often have the tools to advance science and the large urban centres that help with progress, but seem to get stuck in the Middle Ages. For example they seem to have reasonably advanced glass working and metallurgy. I would have thought cannons would be a logical step for them. Especially as there is a need to fight spirit beasts.

Svein Ove Aas

The notion of progress over time is actually fairly recent. For most of human history, progress was so negligible as to be nonexistent; and it was a three steps forward, two steps back process. Combine that with the human tendency to forget bad things, and it’s no wonder the past would be looked at as better. These days our progression is much too fast for any reasonable person to see it that way.

Vector

That trope has always bugged me as well. Though it has been noted in other places especially by the Cloudy sect guy that the province has been ingenious in adapting to the low qi levels.

BlueMage_VT

I love his absolute disdain for their works too. Long boi has venom in him after all lol

Epsilon Rose

Noodle's chapter had an interesting detail. Generally, when ancient works are brought up, they are unequivocally, and unattainablely, better than anything in the present, especially in the Azure Hills—the human living with the monkeys explicitly said present craftsmen could never live up to their ancestors and everything gets worse over time. However, in this chapter, Noodle rejected ancient glass where because techniques that were centuries out if date were inferior to the ones he used. For all that his story is tragic, he's also the clearest example of the world continuing to advance after the fall, rather than just stagnating or regressing.

Imspinnennetz

Second delay to chapter in an attempt to fix sleeping schedule issues from the late chapter last time.

John Pratt

The system wasn't charged with just wood qi, it was an array of all the elements arranged in a virtuous cycle. An overflow of qi from one node flooded the node behind it, causing a chain reaction that destroyed all of the nodes and choking them with a destructive element. Hence the Misty Lake (old water node) being choked by reeds(wood aligned qi) and the creation of Pale Moon Lake (Old metal node choked by water) Ash Forrest(Old wood node choked by fire qi) and the point at the center of the fire qi formation was a volcanic hot spring choked by mineral deposits. We haven't seen the old earth qi node yet, but the Young Master that's crushing on Tigu is from right by there and does blacksmithing, so there's probably a bunch of metal there.

Arin Storm

Neglect wouldn't have caused a system charged solely with wood qi, and most likely fully lacking the ability to hold non-wood qi, to suddenly be filled with nothing but fire qi. It was the facts that the Ash Forest formation was only made to channel wood qi, and that fire qi is inimical to wood qi that caused the explosion. It was the equivalent of throwing a molotov into a room full of gas. Along with that, the mother bear, while likely meant to act mainly a guardian, probably would have been taught how to do up keep on the wood cycle focal point, meaning there's no reasonable way it would have fallen to neglect.

John Pratt

The Cycle of Elements might have been sabotaged, or it might have just been neglected, either would be enough to lead to disaster. We know that at some point demons attacked, and all the Azure Hills Sects pivoted to being Martial Sects. Maybe the demons sabotaged the Cycle, or maybe the people who were supposed to keep an eye on it got busy and forgot about it.

Sabrina Fite

Love your writing and honestly wish you wrote fast enough for a release every couple of hours. But… I think you should only post a new chapter twice per week. If you write at the same speed, it’ll give you a cushion for editing and lazy days.

Arin Storm

But to try to clarify, the first emperor created The Cycle of The Elements to, in theory, empower someone or something by using five formations within one larger formation to concentrate the five main types of qi and funnel them into said someone or something. He had the different versions of the dance taught taught to groups of people, then sent those groups out to establish town that would act as the key points in the formations. However it seems like only the emperor's inner circle knew about the formations or what the dances did, as is exampled by the story of The Eighth Correct Place. They had no idea why they were sent to colonise a flood plain, and they only stayed because they had such strong faith that the emperor knew what he was doing in sending them there. A belief they had been sent there for a purpose, but no knowledge of what that purpose what. Then the formations were sabotaged, resulting in the deaths of the mother bear and her cubs, the burning of Ash Forest, the creation of the scorch bears, and probably the shattering of Tianlan.

Arin Storm

You're fine, I was responding to John's thing about narrative proximity.

mag28

No that makes sense

Arin Storm

Do you mean me saying the root might be connected to the Ash Forest? It seems reasonable, given that it's been the place in the azure hills with the highest concentration of fire qi since probably shortly after the first emperor's reign. Before then it was a place sopping with wood qi, then it burned, and created an entire race of fire aligned spirit beasts. Plus the highly fire aligned root was found on Jin's land, right on top of a shard of Tianlan, who, within the first emperor's inner circle, was the one tasked with performing The Cycle of Wood. That seems like a reasonable connection.

mag28

Yeah thats what I thought happened. That the almost blowing up was done on purpose, and that bi de is looking into the crystal to learn more about it. But now people got me got me a little confused

Arin Storm

They don't know what they're doing. There have been two plots running parallel since early in book two: Bi De's journey, which is now culminating in the Crystal Arc, and the re-emergence of The Cycle of The Elements (the dance/ritual that activates the formation), which began when Tianlan started teaching Xiulan The Cycle of Wood. One has been gathering the knowledge behind The Cycle, and the harm it can cause, while the other has come frighteningly close to performing the full Cycle, without know it. The burning of the Ash Forest wasn't caused by a flaw in an over loaded formation, it was actively sabotaged. During the vision of the past in the forest, Bi De said he could feel the wood qi being focused there suddenly turn into fire qi, and the mother bear specifically thought that she had been betrayed.

John Pratt

Y'all really need to catch up on narrative proximity. The root is the bulb of an intensely Qi filled plant that's all about fire, we know that because MeiMei can't be around it for all the the smell of cinders it gives off. When Jin went to research it, he coincidentally read about a legendary fire flower that gives off a complex weave of fire qi. There's also a region that used be be fire aligned because of (presumably, based on how the threads of gold work for Tianlan) a complex weave of fire qi, but now looks like it's just a little bit of heat away from being a mineral hot spring.

mag28

Okay then I misunstood the purpose of the dance then. I thought they they were preformed to stop the blowing up in the past and they just keep repeating it but didn't know why they were doing. That's my bad so thank you

John Pratt

Yes, it is true, and you aren't wrong, their were circumstances putting lives in immediate risk in most of those instances(except for many of the beats of his character arc as it relates to LanLan). This is the central character arc for Jin, in which he chooses to go from reactively heading off disaster to actively making the world a better place. From simply defending his slice of Heaven, to actively building a better world. Also, the festival dances aren't about preventing a new disaster, in fact they probably caused the disaster. Consider the Cloudy Sword Sect, the entire point of them is that they are following good advice without understanding it, leading to bad outcomes. The dances were about giving qi to the land, and the land blew up because there was too much qi hitting a place at the same time.

Arin Storm

That had no connection to the root. It was a cultivator fable about how the right thing to do when you find something magical is crush it up and snort it (a near quote of Jin's take on the story), the story never mentioned a root in any way, and nothing was specified about the flower, other than that it was magical (I think it was phrased as being "attuned to the universe").

mag28

Okay that answers all the questions that listed. Except I also don't remember him finding anything in the archives. Doesn't he find the pot it's in when he's cleaning a room out and is like "hmm that's still grow anyways whatever" and leaves it where he found it again? You clearly have a better memory than me so thanks for clear that up

John Pratt

He doesn't find anything about the root, but he does read a story about a legendary fire flower and two different cultivators encountering it. It's from the chapter right before he punches the imposter.

Arin Storm

Do you know what chapter he checked the Archives in? I remember him looking, but not finding anything about the root.

John Pratt

1) I'll happen, but probably not for a while. 2)We got two different chapters of her thoughts on it, she concluded that it doesn't actually change anything. We'll probably get a some mention of her pumping him for medical info, but it won't be a whole chapter, that thread is resolved. 3)He still has around 3 months until birth, most of that will be in closer proximity to the birth, I imagine the most in-depth discussion of it will happen with the child in his arms. 4)It's big, but it's not much beyond that. Hootin the monkey is already finding some stuff, and the old Whirling Demon Bandit hideout is probably around here, but just exploring the land doesn't actually offer up much narrative satisfaction, since anything of particular note he finds on it will be something of a butt-pull. 5)Babe development is proximate to this stuff happening right now. He uses metal qi, so that'll be important later. 6)Jin is learning fighting, we had a whole 3 chapter run about it, it needs to rest for a while before it goes back on to cook if it's going to come out fresh when Jin actually needs it. 7)The Magistrate chapters are like candy, I love them, but I'd be sick of too much too fast 8)The last time we saw anything about them it was in the form of a lady who was using poison. It seems like MeiMei needs to be fighting fit before we go back to that well. 9)He's never actually stopped trying, he and Jin still give them cognitive tests and he still gives them lots of Spirtual Herbs, this is brought up fairly often in Bi Di POV chapters. 10)This was largely resolved in the lead up to [Break the Rocks] it probably isn't going to come up again until Jin's past comes to visit him again. 11)I'm pretty sure CasualFarmer has straight up said no to this, and I agree with him. 12)We, the audience, already know what the herb is, Jin read a story about it in the Archives the first time he went. It also folds into the stuff that is happening right now.

mag28

That is true. And I may be wrong about this but if recall everyone of those situation somebody was in immediate danger right? So it's kinda different then what I was saying

John Pratt

Jin has, more then once in each volume of this story, been confronted with the opportunity to either do the right thing in a loud way or stay quiet to preserve his peace, and at every juncture Jin has chosen to do the right thing rather then the smart thing.

mag28

I'm not complaining I wanted to have a discussion and clear up something that I might have misunderstood. And well somethings have been discussed before they haven't been resolved. A good half of them haven't. I think the things I pointed out could be considered constructive criticism not complaining

Imspinnennetz

Chapter is delayed to tomorrow.

Notcreepycreeper

So you worded this like it's not just. Complaint. But it kinda is. Almost everything else u mentioned were very obviously mentioned in a way that showed them as resolved or fun/interesting side quests. The mystery of learning about Big Little Sister, and fixing her has been the basic plot from day 1. Even we, the audience have a bit of an idea of how that went down, but no specifics and nothing that would necessarily lead to a complete fix, we just know that what Jin in doing helps, but she's still VERY broken. I might be reading too much into it, but it also feels like eventually there's going to be an arc to redo whatever the initial ritual was meant to achieve but got messed up/corrupted. The memory crystal arc has been central to that for like 40 chapters or so. I have a love/annoyance relationship with it, bc some of it feels like it's dragging and other times its a chapter like this one, but either way it's very obviously central to the plot.

mag28

But Jin very specifically came to this land because it was so mana less that nobody wanted. So fixing it while good and nice would defeat the purpose of living there and honestly probably hurt him in the long run because rich/powerful people would become interest in his land. So doesn't make sense for him do really. You know like painting a big bullseye on his back which wouldn't be smart

John Pratt

The answer is that, WE THE AUDIENCE know some of what specifically is wrong with the land, but Jin and company don't know very much about any of that. And yes, once they learn specifically what happened, they'll have firmer ideas about how to fix it, and then they will do that. I even already know some of what they're going to do to fix it, because CasualFarmer has been foreshadowing this since very about a third of the way into the first book.

Overclocked

Here here. I find I just don't care for this latest arc.

mag28

But theyre not actively doing anything other than feeding there energy into the land. And arguably Jin does it without realizing hes even doing it. And if they stop doing that there farm doesn't grow things as well so that wouldn't make sense. Maybe I'm not understand the meaning the dances that all the villages do but isn't that to prevent the explosion again. And if thats the case then the crystal can only be what caused the explosion, which is better left unknown. Also if they stop doing what they are doing then the weak and child like earth spirit is left hurt/dying. So yeah that doesn't make sense really. The only think they can from it was how/why it was blown up in the pass. And sense they want nothing to do with that and aren't planning on seeking out people that do plan on doing it again. Then the crystal is just a pandora box waiting to be opened by somebody else

Georgius De Saltu

It's super important? Knowing whether or not their actions are going to blow up the entire province(again) is a very good reason to see what the crystal holds. It's contents could define the direction of the story from here on out, or merely validate what Jin and Co. have been doing.

Arin Storm

12) you're right! That fire root herb showed up twice, seemed like it would be important, then was never brought up again. When are we getting a resolution to that? Given context clues, it's maybe supposed to be connected to the Ash Forest, and the death of the mother bear/creation of the scorch bears. But we learned about those in the second book, and the herb stopped existing after it was shown to Xiulan in the first book.

1) up to the whims of Gramps and military obligations to happen 2) That was it. She simply accepted it as is as it made all his 'weirdness' make sense. In the end for her, he is still Jin so its not that big a deal for her. 3) There are worries but he's taking things as they go and his kid isn't born yet. 4) Its huge but its mostly known about. He even went and walked it during the home video chapter even though that part was skipped over from our pov. Tigu also patrolled the border of it when she was younger and even passed over it challenging any would be enemies to fight her for it. 5) Babe is entirely content to sit down and do nothing or go and use a plow and doesn't need much of anything else. While yes seeing more of Sunny (the blade) would be neat, Babe as is, is simply chilling with life. 6) Jin's Cultivation straight up rejects the way of the blade. He's learning to 'spar' with his disciples. It could be delved into more but, as evident by this list you made, a LOT of plot points to cover and some things take priority. Jin's fighting isn't really one of them. 7) This one I can't refute. I love his pov's as well. 8) Also a legitimate plot point though it's not an immediately relevant one so far. 9) He and Jin tried to give them the 'spark' but they couldn't. Both of em have accepted it and moved on. 10) I believe he only chats with him when he's dreaming and forgets when he wakes up save for the single time when he punched that guy. Could be expanded on I agree. 11) Not likely ever going to be brought up in detail. He's Canadian with a constructor-ish background and a weeb who got in a few scuffles. More than that prolly isn't gonna come up. Jin's life in the Before isn't technically relevant to now. 12) Definitely a Checkov's Gun sorta thing but nobody knows what it is. I'm betting its a very late game reveal.

Zygardegodslayer

I kinda love it. Big D is great.

mag28

Like Jin is fixing the land as it is right now just by caring for his farm. What could we possible learn from the crystal that we don't already know. Like the earth spirit has told us this already right? Am I missing something here? Because off the told of my head I can think of 3-5 other things/plot threads that are more interesting. And I'm not trying to tell them how to write but I'm just giving my honest feed back. And seriously I'm gonna make a list of the plot threads right now just so se them all(and it won't be all of them because I know I'm not a writer and I'm kinda dumb but I'm gonna do it anyways) 1. Gramps comes and visits 2. Meimei pov about finding out Jin from other world(because there's got to be more there) 3. Jin general thoughts/worries about becoming a dad(there's got to be more of that than we've seen) 4. Exploring more of his land because it's fuck huge right? 5. Babe and the plough made from that evil sword(that talked if I'm remembering right) 6. Jin learning fighting 7. Jin learning manners from that poor poor city lord(btw love when we experience his pov) 8. Evil organization that knows about Jin killing there member it the city. 9. Bi de kinda just gave up on trying to get the other animal/chicken on fa ram to become thinking beings(also does that still bother him?) 10. Jin talking to the other soul/being that was in his current body(I know he did briefly acouple of times but like is he okay with it now? Does he hate Jin? Idk) 11. Jin's background before being reborn(I know its hint at as being bad and ending badly) but I want to know more 12. That spiritual herd that Jin found day one of the farm(like 2 years and still doesn't know)

mag28

You know what fuck it, I want to ask a serious question and it's gonna sound like I'm trying to argue but I'm not so I want a response please. I genuinely don't get where this is going. Like great I get it the land use to be better then something happened.(we already knew that's good worldbuilding I guess) But does actually knowing what happened gonna change anything? Like is Jin or bi de gonna go try to fix it? Because I don't think they are but maybe they will if thats possibly.

Scout Mills

It’s sad that the thing that that kicked noodle out of the vision was him being happy.

Artur Vogt

"You filthy peasant are only in the prfound realm..." Well that puts the past level of cultivation into a perspective!

Patrick McCuller

It's difficult to guide readers through events of an alien nature, that they can't really experience themselves. I think you handled it expertly!


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