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Andy Matuschak
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Too easy to be effortless

🕑 Added 2021-03-26 22:08:46 +0000 UTC

Comments

Jim Beaver

The binary "yeah I remember that" (which most people would say yes after seeing the answer) might not give you complete insight. Maybe instead of clicking yes/no you click somewhere on a scale on your comfort with the question. Behind the scene you could quantify it with a number but I don't think you have to show a scale of 5 different buttons say. That would just increase the friction. Then you could see if their answer improved over time. I don't know...just a thought.

Andy Matuschak

Thanks for making this point. You helped me realize that my current approach can de-bias generous self-grading, but only within a given time slice. I don't have a good way to de-bias it across time. Hmmm…

Jim Beaver

I know from my experience of going through Quantum Country, there is a real temptation to say you remember something when you don’t. I think that people can self report probably skews the results. It’s also a way to get the system to quit asking you questions because it makes you feel bad that you don’t know it. I do think humans have a tendency to say they understand something but when asked to explain it, they become aware that they don’t. There are definitely questions I consistently can’t remember :0

So interesting! I haven't read such case studies from players such as Anki, SuperMemo, Readwise where they talk about the effectiveness of their SRS. So reading this opens up a whole new set of issues to be tackled: how to not make remembering too effortless. +1 on Cooper's comment above about making questions adaptively harder (something that english language tests like GRE implement). Kudos on the work, Andy! Look forward to reading more.

Andy Matuschak

1. Possibly, yes! How many questions are necessary to "span" the space of the content? We don't know how to help mnemonic essay authors assess this yet. 2. This is a great question. I'd love to eventually have objective data as you suggest, but we do have some strong directional cues that people aren't just making everything up. For instance, the median user will mark most answers as remembered… but they won't mark *all* answers remembered, and the ones which they admit to forgetting are fairly consistent across users (i.e. they're somewhat objectively harder to remember). They may still be overly lenient on themselves, but at least it seems to be a directional bias rather than a blanket blindfold.

Andy Matuschak

I'm very interested in an approach like this! There's a field called "intelligent tutoring systems" that try to do something like what you describe—the notion here would be to combine that more detailed knowledge model with a spaced-over-time practice regime and model of memory.

Hey Andy, I wonder about the effect of increasing question difficulty with time. For example, perhaps the in-text questions regard simple definitions, and, with each review session, the review questions become more complex application questions that require synthesis of multiple definitions and concepts. To me, this seems like a nice way to counter feelings of tediousness. Of course, a downside of this would be a higher overhead for the author. Also, the system would have to be more complex and so the models one would have to employ would also need to be more complex (for example, the question of what should happen when someone gets a question wrong becomes harder to answer).

That's really interesting. It leaves me wondering a couple of things: 1. Are there too many "easy" questions? 2. How reliable is the self-report of having remembered? I know there's no easy way around that with this kind of tool, but am wondering if it might be possible to do some experiments with an occasional objective test to go along with the subjective one. That might give the writer some feedback to help hone their prompts, and might give the learner a check on the tendency to tell themselves "I basically had that one right". As a teacher, I can tell you most learners fool themselves without even realizing it.

Andy Matuschak

Yes, I've noticed something similar! https://notes.andymatuschak.org/Spaced_repetition_review_sessions_often_become_boring_and_detached_without_a_steady_stream_of_new_prompts I suspect this is a real barrier to adoption for the mnemonic medium, since there's relatively little content available now.

Andy Matuschak

That's an interesting piece of feedback, thank you! On Quantum Country, readers seemed to much prefer it when we limited new prompts to 50/day (and 25 in their first session).

Thank you. This was actually a good reminder to me to complete my last review session from a while back.

Thanks for this! I wonder whether the ingredient of a few fresher, recently-written prompts sometimes acts as leaven for the whole batch? Seems to save the entire review session from the feeling of dutiful “maintenance”. And of course, with respect to our learning and developing thinking as a whole, the tedium of maintenance during reviews can also sometimes signal that we’re stagnating slightly!

Great post. A note on tedium: across a few different SRSes I use reguarly, I rarely feel tedium from seeing a particular prompt too often. But a long review session definitely demoralizes me. I think this often arises from many "first learned" items on the same day all getting scheduled together in the future. It's like trying to get a large bolus down your esophagus. In these cases, I'd much rather have the platform rate limit how many prompts I get per day, assuming there's enough unused capacity on adjacent days.

Well done. I probably wrote a dozen notes from this, Andy. Probably a measure of generativity in there, somewhere.


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