Know Your Enemy
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Consider the Cranks (w/ David Austin Walsh)
🕑 Added 2024-05-20 18:33:09 +0000 UTCHistorian David Austin Walsh joins to discuss his excellent new book Taking America Back: The Conservative Movement and the Far Right — a fascinating re-description of the relationship between the far right and the American conservative movement from the 1930s to the end of the Cold War.
How did figures like William F. Buckley, Jr. relate to figures on the further right fringes of right-wing politics, people like Merwin K Hart, Revilo Oliver, Russel Maguire, and George Lincoln Rockwell? And how should we make sense of Buckley and others' furtive efforts to sanitize the right of its more explicitly racist, anti-semitic, and conspiratorial elements? In this conversation, Walsh makes the case for viewing the conservative coalition, from National Review to the John Birch Society to white power movements and neo-Nazis, as embodying a "popular front." That is to say — like the American left in the 1930s — these groups thought of themselves as part of a unified movement with a common enemy; and despite their differences over strategy, tactics, and rhetoric, they shared a fundamental worldview and vision of the good. What's more, as Walsh demonstrates, figures of the fringe and mainstream tended to maintain relationships and contact with one another, even if formal ties were severed.
Walsh's book is a major contribution to ongoing historiographic debates about 20th century American conservatism — of the sort we love to have on KYE — and he himself is a delightful source of detail and texture about the cranks and weirdos who make up a larger share of the right than many mainstream liberals and conservatives would like to believe.
Further Reading:
David Austin Walsh, Taking America Back: The Conservative Movement and the Far Right, Yale U Press, April 2024.
John S. Huntington, Far-Right Vanguard: The Radical Roots of Modern Conservatism, Penn Press, Oct. 2021.
Edward Miller, A Conspiratorial Life: Robert Welch, the John Birch Society, and the Revolution of American Conservatism, U Chicago Press. Feb 2022.
Rick Perlstein, "I Thought I Understood the American Right. Trump Proved Me Wrong." New York Times. April 11, 2017.
Peter Khiss, "KENNEDY TARGET OF BIRCH WRITER; Article Says He Was Killed for Fumbling Red Plot," New York Times, Feb 11, 1964.
Leo Ribuffo, "The Old Christian Right: The Protestant Far Right from the Depression to the Cold War," Temple U Press. 1983.
Sam Adler-Bell, "The Remnant and the Restless Crowd," Commonweal, Aug 1, 2018.
Comments
Aaron Lee
My favorite example of this is an episode of Jack Webb’s right-wing cop show Dragnet from the 60s. Sgt. Joe Friday takes on a white supremacist gang. In the end, when he arrests their leader, Friday asks him “So you hate minorities, huh?” The leader says “Yeah.” Friday replies “Well you’re a psychopath. They’re a minority too.” (Followed by the BOM-BA-BOMP-BOMP musical sting, of course)
Paul Lemaire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jSVwZ8w3C4
Paul Lemaire
“It’s one thing to be called a nazi by the left, it’s another to be recognized as a nazi by a nazi”. This reminded me of this amazing scene from “Falling Down”, when Michael Douglas’ vengeful rage turns on the skinhead who is trying to fraternize with him after having saved his life. He reacts in disgust to this un-American neo-nazi’s attempt at comradeship and recites the Bill of Rights to him before shooting him dead. Always thought this was the most spot-on scene in that film because it taps into the complex dynamic that this KYE episode illuminates. The defensive self-image that a certain kind of unhinged "Americanism" relies on to vindicate its motivations, asserting a kind of token anti-fascism in contrast with, or in firm opposition to this or that more explicitly freakish fringe. The performative, convoluted way in which the right addresses the inconveniently straightforward rhetoric of its heretics and most repulsive extremists, by conflating it with the wider pervasive decadence the right purports to defend against (“liberal fascism”) …
Mark K
I was wondering when KYE would mention Rockwell. There is a documentary called “Blood in the Face” (featuring interviewer Michael Moore) about the sickening remnants of his flock in 1990s Michigan, much recommended.
David
Excellent episode! Has me thinking a bit about the intertwined caginess and audacity of today's very online right. Anonymous twitter accounts developing large followings posting fascist meme's, public figures (including a certain #1 frenemy of the pod) avoiding overly explicit statements of their views, I've stumbled upon a podcast or two that interviewed folks who seemed perfectly normal and then upon a quick googling turns out they are wild on the internet. This past week there was a piece in the Guardian identifying the guy Lomez behind the right-wing publishing house Passage Press (as an aside if you two are following this story at all I'd love to know your thoughts on it or even more about the more out there reaches of the right-wing publishing world in general). I'm not really sure what if any point I'm trying to make, but I guess in short I feel like I'm noticing a meaningful number of people who are (on a much smaller scale) trying to be both Buckley and Rockwell and I'm wondering now if there is anything distinct about this development, if it's just the luxury of not being a true celebrity that you can play both roles, or if I simply spend far too much time on weird parts of the internet. Thank you for your work as always.
Kyle Mitchell
Fascinating conversation as always. I’d love a sequel to this that continues on into the 21st Century to discuss more contemporary movements like the Tea Party in the 2010s and even local (to me) grassroots groups like Long Island Loud Majority.
Naomi
It’s called “Fragile Juggernaut”
Steven Ngo
That’s a good point. Maybe Cory Robins is right and that conservativism is, ideologically at least, much weaker than people think. He argues that the new new right inherited the structure of the old right to promote their ideas. But because they didn’t have to build these institutions they never had to do the hard, dirty work of building a coherent ideology Thus the incoherence and need to resort to straight-up racism, sexism and homophobia. Liberal fascism? It’s a stupid argument.
Krishna Ravindra
Right, but it’s a bit different in that today’s anti-feminism is from a male hedonist and libertine angle allowing them to fold in “heterodox” thinkers, barstool dudes, and libertarians to their coalitions. Two republicans reps announced an affair with each other like it’s nbd a few days ago. That’s different from the anti-sexual revolution part of yesterday’s anti-communism.
Steven Ngo
When I went down the rabbit hole of the history of the right (I’ll never forgive this pod for that), it surprised me how the anti-feminism was even more intense than the anti-blackness. My theory is that with the civil rights movement, everyone knows there’s a basis to the protest. Thus Buckley contorts himself to oppose it without being called a racist fascist. Whereas with feminism, esp. white feminism–well, that’s a threat from inside the house. That’s their daughters rebelling and rejecting their “natural” roles in a hierarchical society. That taps into a primal fear. I recently got into a chat with a white female college sophomore. Her uncle opposed her going to college bc he was afraid she’d be indoctrinated into Marxism. Which actually happened.
Krishna Ravindra
Thinking about the old right as a popular front against “communism”, I wonder if “feminism” is the new binding glue. The social conservative stuff is clear, but for other groups, Bari Weiss’ cancel culture stuff was trying to rescue sex pests, and the people at Reason regularly whine about Me Too. The TERF stuff is about protecting “women” from modern feminism, and the Hungry (and Desantis) fans loved cancelling gender studies. Also, Trump himself abuses women.
Steven Ngo
Recently I’ve been thinking (honestly probably overthinking) about the liberals’ nostalgia for Buckley or Regan and now Bush. The left is, of course, defined in opp. to the right and (neo)liberalism so their suspicion of conservatism is ingrained. But something about liberalism blinds liberals to how politics is a grand drama of ambition, tragedy and farce. This is why I think the patron st of this pod, Garry Wills, fell out with the movement and is such an insightful commentator on it. He’s not a leftist but as a serious classicist he understands in the Shakespearean sense how politics taps into the full range of human capacities, from the good to the bad. For instance, I’m surprised that liberal democrats still turn to CNN or the Atlantic for “reliable” news coverage. Did you learn nothing from the Iraq war?
Adam Lewis
I am inclined to replace "assassinated" with "murdered," for fear of according Rockwell significance or dignity.
Rick Perlstein
Especially since he was assassinated for it...
Rick Perlstein
As often, Reagan drills down to the core of the thing. This was what he said about the John Birch Society's number two guy, John Rousselot, in the heat of his 1966 campaign for governor: "John is great. He’ll praise us or denounce us, whichever we want.”
Zach Johnson
what was the podcast about the CIO mentioned here? I can’t find it
Adam Lewis
A man builds a prison for himself on lies and piles its walls high in anger. Hans Küng's half-remembered description of Hell comes to mind.
Ann
Could anyone point me to work discussing the relationship between the conservative movement and the privatization of incarceration? Great pod
Nico Villarreal
I think you guys are a bit self flattering in saying the far left is totally disconnected from liberals or the Democrats. CPUSA is still explicitly pop frontist, DSA is explicitly tailing the Dems, MMT/Keynsians economic advisers are in conversation with Marxists. You guys are freudo-marxists tailing the Dems. Hell, most anarchists are tailing the Dems too.
Vincent
There is this something pitiable about Rockwell. I can’t help but picture an angry, isolated man alone with his increasingly rabid thoughts. Attributing a communal benefit to conspiratorial thinking is in vogue, but to go through life with such paranoia and hatred sounds v stressful and dispiriting.
