Know Your Enemy
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The Right Kind of Worker (w/ Gabriel Winant)
🕑 Added 2022-05-01 17:16:38 +0000 UTCSince Donald Trump was elected president — partially on the strength of white working class support in the Rust Belt — we've heard that the GOP is a working class party; that liberals sold out American labor to globalized capital; and that American workers are too socially and culturally conservative to remain within the increasingly progressive Democratic tent. According to the populist right, the culture war is itself a class war, waged on behalf of real workers against a secular, libertine professional elite who control the commanding heights of the economy, government, and media.
What's wrong with this story? Labor historian and essayist Gabriel Winant joins Matt and Sam to answer that question. Using Gabe's award-winning book The Next Shift: The Fall of Industry and the Rise of Health Care in Rust Belt America as a guide, we tell a different story about working class formation in this country, about the forces that led to the decline of America's industrial base, and about the prospects for renewing labor's power relative to capital. Along the way, we take on figures of the newly labor-curious right — Oren Cass, Sohrab Ahmari, and others — explaining how their vision is based on ideologically motivated elisions that seek to resolve rather than energize class conflict. It's a hot one, folks!
Further Reading:
Gabriel Winant, "We Live in a Society," n+1, Dec 12, 2020
— "Professional-Managerial Chasm," n+1, Oct 10, 2019
— "Coronavirus and Chronopolitics" n+1, Spring 2020.
— "Strike Wave," New Left Review, Nov 25, 2021.
Sohrab Ahmari, "How America Kneecapped Its Unions," Compact, Mar 31, 2022.
Julius Krein, "The Real Class War," American Affairs, Nov 20, 2019.
Alexander Riley, "Labor Betrayed by the Progressive Left," Chronicles, Mar 2022.
Landon R.Y. Storrs, The Second Red Scare and the Unmaking of the New Deal Left, Princeton U Press, 2012.
Melinda Cooper, Family Values: Between Neoliberalism and the New Social Conservatism Zone Books, 2017.
Alice Kessler-Harris, In Pursuit of Equity: Women, Men, and the Quest for Economic Citizenship in 20th-Century America, 2001. Oxford U Press. 2001.
Comments
Mark K
"And so part of what my book is trying to do is to try to explore how gender and race are part of how class structure actually works, and how it's organized." - Gabe So what I'm taking from this is that Jordan Peterson might have a point when he talks about Postmodern Neo-Marxism? Only slightly kidding.
Eddie A
Really good episode!
Kori Sparks
Also, there’s a fantastic definition of/conversation about neoliberalism in the brilliant Gunpower episode! It was extremely helpful for me in understanding neoliberalism.
Kori Sparks
Very much appreciate the convo around historical materialists’ misguided (completely insane) separation of “identity” and class. Like, am I fucking crazy or is slavery not the most obvious example of how identity and class are or should be inseparable in this theory of history? Especially considering generational wealth. Don’t ideas about surplus distribution actually come first when race-based slavery was justified by a wild, uniquely Protestant interpretation of the Bible?
Matthew Hall
Glad to have Gabe's perspective and connecting the value of care work to larger class struggle.
Dónal Gill
Brilliant conversation. So great to hear high level historical and contemporary analysis so thoroughly rooted in classical Marxist principles without it ever falling off either the overly-vulgar (Manifesto style) or impossibly-complex (Kapital style) cliffs.
Jeff-
this was a very yummy episode- thanks
History Chick
Great episode! While the pro-labor stance of the Trumpian-populist right has received quite a bit of attention, there has been little attention as to how it differs from the leftist pro-labor stance. So, I thought that Gabe's distinction was particularly helpful. It always has seemed like a disingenuous political ploy but understanding the motives and goals of the ploy are key to deploying effective counter strategies. What's particularly frustrating about the move is that they are exploiting the very conditions of discontent that conservatives have themselves created.
Kyle
I really enjoyed this episode, and will help inform some of my own day-to-day debates I have with my “pro-labor” in-laws. I’m also from Pittsburgh, so it was cool to hear some history of the region.
C. B.
Absolutely loved The Next Shift and this conversation!
Know Your Enemy
That's so kind, Lou! So glad you're still enjoying the show! - Sam
Lou Guberti Ng
The fact that the show is several years in and you guys keep topping yourselves is remarkable. I so greatly appreciated Gabriel's perspective on these issues and how legible he makes them. Really wonderful ep
