Post "Antikythera Fragment #10 - The Workshop" by "clickspring"

Gregor Shapiro

It does not rain much during many of the seasons around the Eastern Mediterranean.

Clickspring

Cheers John :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Jeff Armstrong

It is probable that there was a sufficient roof to protect from rain but such a covering would not make much difference to he available light. You get a lot of light in any outside situation even if it is in the shade. The 'cloisters' depicted in Clickspring's sketches are more than enough cover. The bench of my own workshop in Australia is on the shady side of the shed for most of the day, in fact full sun is too bright. The tools would have been sufficiently waterproof to survive the occasional shower. I have visited the palace of Knossos on Crete (where is it speculated that Daedalus worked) and found the light there very similar to the light on the apron of my workshop in Sydney.

Markos Skoulatos

Your sketches look VERY similar to a traditional Greek monastery :=)

Max Goldstein

If the workbench had to be outside for light, and tools had to be near the workbench, it makes me wonder if there was some way to protect the tools from rain.

Nicholas Kvaltine

Hahah, that's fantastic! And a good reason to go re-watch that video. Cheers!

Kenneth Carlile

Great vid as always. I do so love that magic of making the rivets completely disappear in the brass. Thanks, Chris!

Tommy Jobson

What a fantastic video! I'm completely back into full AM obsession mode again now! All the very best, Tommy.

Dane Kinnear

The way those strips consistently hold that shape from two simple punches is incredible.

Graeme Brumfitt

Love the sketches Chris wouldn't mind working there! GB :)

InsaneTD

Awesome video. I'm curious if that natural rosin is reusable? Could you meet the used flakes and cast it?

Mike Michelizzi

Excellent as always!

Peter Sigsgaard

As for the how -to most of that info is in the first fragment video, i might also suggest flat stock of HDPE or Delrin(Acetal) as modern replacements you could cut the locking collar from.

Nelson Baietti

When I heard your "G’day Chris here..." I realized I was actually chocking a bit and fighting to hold back a tear! I can't believe how much listening to your narration meant to me, and to a lot of people it seems! Thank you for posting again, Chris!!! I hope everything is well with you! Cheers!!!!!!

Paul McGovern

Chris, congratulations on yet another absolutely fantastic video. The work itself is fascinating enough, but to research, storyboard and weave a narrative throughout, while filming such extremely.delicate work in such high quality, is astounding. Love the editing flourishes at the end, really helped tell the story, as well as the artwork and the brilliant attention to detail, not just with the mechanism but the whole universe around it. Thanks so much for putting all this effort in, a real treat to watch!

Matt Waite

I love your attention to detail. I know first hand that tiny tweaks like the crackling fire and lens flare on the ancient workshop sunrise add significantly to post production time, but they really elevate your films from the accomplished hobbyist to broadcast quality. Keep it up! I look forward to the next installment!

Justus Dehegovit

Also my the voice inside my head has been complaining alot about how your videos take so much time. But when I saw the wall of references in your post and thought about how you had to read through all of these, myself was like: "You have absolutely no room to complain, inner me! Less room than a typical fastening pin in his model. So quit whining or I hammer and trim you into shape!"

Justus Dehegovit

I don't remember if I said this in the last fragments video (as it has been just too long to remember) but the sound the spirals make when struck are music to my ears. So harmonic!

veritanuda

Thanks, Chris. I am totally fascinated with this series. I know you have lots of other things to do, and writing up stuff is never as easy as doing it. So thanks for your efforts and know it is appreciated/

Jim

I’m grateful for your willingness to put these videos together. They are excellent.

Gregor Shapiro

Will you make a video explaining the probable construction and layout of the gears and other parts necessary for the Egyptian lunar calendar to be incorporated into the AM?

Gregor Shapiro

You can make a usable collar from a variety of hard woods with interlocking grain (e.g. live oak or olive root, etc.) even if such won't last as long as a cast bronze piece, they will function for quite some time. Choose your wood carefully and you'll be great.

LeoMakes

Fantastic video as always! I was surprised (and kind of delighted) to see that something as simple as pummace+water on leather provides a good quality finish just like modern abrasives. One thing I've been wondering throughout this series: Was this an elite workshop making bleeding edge technology (think: Space X making state-of-the-art rocket engines) or could the Antikythera mechanism have been made at any sufficiently good workshop of the time? I'm guessing we'll never know for sure, but it's an interesting thing to ponder.

john horton

Welcome back.

Joris van 't Land

Excellent, and very interesting, as usual! Thank you!

Clickspring

Hello mate, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Re the existence of a sharp/thin/sturdy enough 'steel', yes it seems likely. The machines features pretty much require it. Although we wouldn't strictly call it steel by today's definition, but rather 'carburised iron'. I covered what I consider to be the most likely carburisation technique in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Mp1fNzIT8, and then demonstrated it in this video on making drill bits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1aj_3tlQhU (The smallest holes in the machine are approx 0.8mm). It's a fairly straight forward step to use an abrasive stone to form the cutting edges for a drill bit, tapered reamer or countersink. As for the origins of the pin material, yes the 'hard way' strikes me as most likely. We see pins everywhere in the CT scans as permanent fasteners (like those used in this video), and also as temporary cross-pin fasteners used to permit disassembly; both iron and bronze appear to have been used as the latter. I've not yet found evidence that directly supports a wire drawing technology in the period, so I have erred on the side of caution and avoided asserting that tech, even though it does seem reasonable based on some of the jewelry of the period. In any event, forging+abrasives would be sufficient to get the stock to the starting point in its absence, and a simple lathe tech would be enough to true it up from there. I've been experimenting with ideas on how this lathe tech may have worked and will cover it in a future video. Interestingly, the AM is probably the best artefact on the record to properly define the boundaries of what that lathe tech was capable of in the day - Cheers :)

Colin Martin

Even if they were a hundred bucks, count me in as your first buyer! would also be a fun community project to have us all share the tools we've made using the part you supplied! I literally have every other piece to make one on hand - in addition to having the tool I've been wanting on hand, I'd love to share how I made it, from the materials available to me in the united states' pacific northwest Either way, I just hope you keep sharing videos on youtube - I want my support to go towards everyone experiencing your flatly unbelievable skills and technique with the world!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Its turned out to be such a useful tool, I reckon I could sell a few! Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Glenn Trewitt

I've always appreciated your attention to "what they could have had", which this video reinforces. However, this video has two cutting tools that seem out of place: the big reamer and especially the tiny needle reamer. Did they have the kind of steel that could be sharp enough, thin enough, and sturdy enough? And, what about those pins? Did they have the ability to draw wire, or would they have had to make them "the hard way"? In any case, I really enjoyed this video.

Sean Kirby

Agree with all that. The degree of flatness required is relative to the needs of the project of course. I was thinking along the lines of using a flattening technique to make a mold for casting flat bronze/brass plate (at least flat on the bottom face of the cast to give a reference surface). Seems more efficient than trying to manually flatten both sides of each rough cast plate. Cheers.

Bruce L Allen

Wow! I was loving the video and then I saw the links and references section. I was absolutely floored thinking of the amount of work that section alone requires. The amount of work you must have done to produce this video had to be huge. I really appreciate that you share your work so freely. Color me gobsmacked.

Colin Martin

It'd be really awesome to see a how-to build on that knee-vise that you have, but for those of us who don't have access to the casting tools required for that bronze shackle. I run into places all the time where that kind of vise would be SO useful, but I don't have the tools to cast that one piece. Alternatively, you could make and sell them! Obviously would be a lot of work to do, but I don't know how much more or less it'd be than the fire piston.

Sam Towns, Bladesmith

Awesome to see you back at it Chris! This was an awesome build

Clickspring

Yes I agree, the wonderful chaps who I engaged to do them did a great job!

Clickspring

Thank you mate! Ok, so 'flatness' would have to be one of the most interesting topics of Antiquity. The mechanism needs fairly close tolerance fits, and a certain degree of 'practical' workshop flatness to function. But its not particularly demanding, and abrading raw stock on a decently flat surface would have done the job. So sticking to the "minimum viable tool/minimum indicated requirements" philosophy means we can simply sidestep the issue of precision flatness for the AM. We don't really need super flatness for the machine to function, and we don't have any specific evidence indicated in the device for it either - But - there *are* stone/granite surfaces on record for the period made with superb flatness. Some of the examples in Egypt are just phenomenal. That's the real story on flatness in Antiquity, and I've yet to see anything credible that gives a complete explanation. I suspect that its again a story of the clever use of abrasives, and it may well be that a proto-Whitworth process is in the mix there somewhere too - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Cheers Bernie :)

Andrew Denton

Those line drawing of the compound were quite good.

Clickspring

Yes, I'm very much inclined to agree regarding the ground level work having seen the same sort of stuff. In fact I spent quite a bit of time wrestling with how I was going to represent that aspect of the video without being too dogmatic - its one thing to present it as a possibility, but something else again to lock it in visually as 'being so'. My resolution was to present both: the anvil at ground level, and a 'bench' at something more waist high so that both options can be visualised, since there is a decent argument to be made for either. I was also very particular to leave wiggle room in the dialog: "sturdy working surface, stable work surfaces etc" and to not specify 'bench' as necessarily being 'on legs'. A 'bench' could have been somewhat like what we see in the Pakistan tribal firearms industry. Where the 'bench' is the workholding, tool caddy, part storage boxes etc, all at ground level - its an interesting aspect to contemplate - Cheers :)

Sean Kirby

Excellent video, Chris. :) re: making flat surfaces This is one workshop tech that ancients could have had, using the 3 plate method of creating a flat surface, which can deliver a high degree of flatness. https://ericweinhoffer.com/blog/2017/7/30/the-whitworth-three-plates-method

Bernie Stefan-Rasmus

It is interesting to speculate on what may have been in an ancient workshop. Other than the banging of hammers I imagine it would have been much more quiet than a modern workshop. Thanks for you thoughtful speculation

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Euan Walker

Great video. Having seen jewelers, metal works and even stone workers sitting cross legged and working on "stumps" across India, I can totally see them doing almost all of the work at ground level, rather than needing high benches. I love that watching that video you can instantly imagine what the environment constructing it would have looked like. My bigger question: How would they have done the design drawings without CAD? Love your work as always. thanks.

Duncan Luddite

Thanks for the new video Chris :) Fascinating as always.

Duncan Luddite

Yes, even into the 1700's (and possibly latter) flat stock brass was poured. This then had to be hammered by the watch and clockmakers (apprentices?) to consolidate it and make it the requisite hardness for the job. In one of my early watchmaking books there's a comment about making a part "of well hammered brass...". :)

Jeff Armstrong

There would have been. My wife is researching this world for a novel series she writing set about 1500 years earlier. This would have been a large facility with staff (probably slaves) to feed the workers all based around a temple of Haephestus.

Clickspring

My pleasure mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate! Yes the lamp is shopmade; its a re-purpose of the little canister I made to make leather charcoal to harden steel - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Yes certainly Sam. As it happens there is some excellent research suggesting precisely that: https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/close-work-without-magnifying-lenses/ There is evidence of refractive lenses from the period, and it has been suggested by some researchers that this may account for the very fine detail work from the period, for example the Pylos Agate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos_Combat_Agate . Personally I find it doubtful that lenses were used in this way; the work requires such an intimate engagement with the workpiece, that the lens examples on record simply could not provide. The myopic hypothesis on the other hand meets all of the criteria to actually perform the work, and so strikes me as much more plausible - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Yes I am inclined to agree with you Jeff. One thing I've learned from the process is just how much ancillary work is involved. We get to take so much for granted, like for example flat stock simply being available on size and on request (via airfreight no less!); yet actually making it to standard (and in quantity) with hand tools is quite the ordeal - Cheers :)

Clickspring

So pleased you're enjoying them mate :)

Clickspring

Wow - so pleased to read this mate, thank you :)

Clickspring

Cheers Derek :)

Clickspring

Thanks Bill :)

Clickspring

Cheers John :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Terrific mate :)

John S Dilsaver

Thanks so much for a glimpse into what the AKM makers world might have been like. I especially identified with the forge the anvils and the hammer. I wonder how large the group of workers was? It seems like there must have been earlier versions, was there a carefully preserve box of parts and notes from years before and from ptevious workers? Was there a local restaurant where they all met for breakfast? Thanks for letting us wonder about all this.

Nicholas Kvaltine

Great video as always! That's a cool looking oil lamp you've got, did you make it as well? Would be interested in that process too, if so!

Sam Lander

I am a recovered myopic. I see environments like this, and see how people with my ability/disability might have been essential. CI wonder how many workshop workers could focus on objects 50mm away from their eyes?

randomphrase

Absolutely fascinating and inspiring. Honestly someone like Netflix should be throwing money at you to make these videos!

Jeff Armstrong

So I'm 'late' commenting but I only saw the email 12 minutes ago. :) One of your best for providing the back story of this world. As we've discussed before this project is a look into a nearly lost world. This video has been worth the wait. You speculate whether an apprentice would have been there to do the grunt work but I would risk a very large sum betting he (no females allowed in those days) would there along with upwards of a dozen others plus a couple of journeymen as well all working under the Master.

James Palmer

Fantastic video as always, I think the speed I click on one of your videos is faster than for anyone else! 🤣

SA Sampson

... really enjoy these videos - I have an old toolset from my Grandfather - machinist tools. He passed a couple of years before I existed (in the early 60s), so it's my only real connection. Many of the items I thought were scrap - but I've kept anyway - I now know are little shop made tools or stock...plus I know the purpose and use of other tools... all learned by watching these series.... Cheers for adding some meaning to that connection...

Derek Meisenhelder

Wonderful. Thanks for continuing to share your incredible work!

Bill Yester

I could watch you work all day. So fascinating! Thank you

John Gentzel

Thanks for the video!!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Russell :)

Clickspring

Hello mate, yes its to protect from marring the work - Cheers :)

Clickspring

So pleased you liked it mate :)

Patch Arcana

This is the very last thing I'd have expected a video on, but I'm absolutely thrilled you made it!

Clickspring

Cheers Gustav!

Clickspring

Ha ha! Thank you Matthieu :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Chris Muncy

Pure sex on a new level. You NEVER cease to amaze us Chris. Thank you for the afternoon gift as well as a different perspective of the life and times of those ancient architects of yesteryear.

Russell Reckman

Awesome. Thanks Chris!

Leo G.

Woooo! New stuffs! Question: There's a new addition to the twist drill there. Why the small bit of leather on the bit? Is it just for protection from shavings flying at you? This seems unlikely given the nature of the cutting and speed of the drill. The removed material is in very tiny pieces and doesn't seem to fly away like it might with a modern high speed bit. I suspect that protecting the work from marring while drilling a thru hole is a more likely answer, but you don't confirm this.