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The Origin of Life: What do we know?

🕑 Added 2023-05-13 12:00:05 +0000 UTC
The Origin of Life: What do we know?

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Good discussion. The issue with the meteoritic nucleobases is that it still doesn't explain the origin of life, it just shifts the focus to extraterrestrial origins. the same goes for creationism and Intelligent Design, they don't provide evidence that god, or a designer exists, or explain god's or the designer's origins. I think that the idea that life is inevitable, depending on having the correct conditions, such as temperature providing for liquid water and the correct chemistry, is correct.

Rad Antonov

I reckon we are not ready for the Overlords yet. Let’s hope they turn up before our conscious species torches the fluke it’s living on along with all the other life forms we give so little credit to.

If you go back to the collider talk, I hope, that Bee is too busy to read, otherwise might take out her spike again. Seriously, this paper says something about "weak interaction", but I'm not sure, if it's meant 'The Weak Interaction' (that indeed would be connected with beta decay and neutrino things). They're talking about muons in the atmosphere and polarisation of cosmic radiation, so I think it's not. What you told about the M.-U. experiments would support the paper, didn't know about it. So, crazy enough, I took my time to research, if there is a connection between the chirality if amino acids and the handedness of snail shells. Sadly, it's not, noble price fades away.

I reckon any life that's found elsewhere is going to be relatively simple and likely not conscious. I tend to believe Earth is a fluke. I will be excited about any simple scum or fuzz or whatever that's found anyway.

sad reality seems in more ways than one to me to be that we the collective that is us...let that drip in for a minute or three...do not know where we are and so every time that we we are claims to look for that aka the we we are attempts to begin with what we with a certain certainty do not know given the title of the ad venture and the light shining from behind the heads chained below the wall remain where they are chained looking at the ill illusions of imitated fantasy given the two layers of skin and three layers of watery lense inducing lens effect bending of the burning salt lines putting a distinct edge on indistinct masses of praying people looking into the dark and a few thousand complete moon cycles newer on the old scale of thyme oregano and both the sativa and indica strains of rice the nice bowl filler which looks like salt tastes like salt and contains salt when cooked in salt water it runs on like that until the friction of the smell tells you to turn off the heat and if you are not listening care full ly you might miss the tune

Have you looked at Cairnes-Smith, particularly “Genetic Takeover: The Mineral Origins of Life”? I think that amino acids are likely to have been a late development. Sugars (like the backbones of RNA and DNA) synthesize more easily.

As I recall, the amino acids created in the Miller-Urey experiments were of the opposite chirality to those found in organisms. If the chirality of molecules can be tied to high energy particle physics, then I wonder about the conditions on early Earth. It looks like microbial life developed before Earth's global magnetic field was established. This means that the early cosmic ray abundance at Earth's surface was significantly higher when our fundamental biochemistry was established. If the Miller-Urey experiments were re-done but also adding a heaping helping of cosmic rays, would the chirality of the amino acids be correct this time? That's it, we need a larger particle collider. :-)

Rad Antonov

Hi Thomas, I am glad you enjoyed it. I agree, it was neat to see how symmetry breaking at an elementary particle level can manifest itself in the chirality of DNA. Speculative, of course, but interesting. The way I came across it was looking through the references of some neutrino paper, may have been on double beta decay, that memory is foggy.

The universe is vast and will last for long, so whatever is possible, even with very low probability, and not forbidden by laws of physics, will end up happening at sometime somewhere... even though maybe only once.

I am sure someone has been looking for other life forms on Earth not based on DNA/RNA. If found, it would have been breaking news! In mRNA vaccines the uracil (U) is replaced by another molecule, so maybe other options are possible for life, but it seems that life as we know it is a quite restricted architecture, not admitting so many fundamental modifications without breaking it. To the question of why other life forms based on other possibilities are not present on Earth, someone once told me that life as we know it has predated all available resources, not allowing anything else to appear, but I don't find it a very convincing argument, considering that, for example, civilization appeared independently in six places on Earth: https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/the-6-civilizations/comment-page-1

Hi Rad, backreaction again, after copied the right website adress in my browser at the end. Well, that's a really exciting paper, no story time, not about neutrinos of course. In my nerdy mind the question of chirality of life structures is working for some years. This paper should be very well-known, ask myself, if Sabine knows about it. If the authors are right, that would have some consequences on the view and meaning on/of life, and it should be proven easily with some material samples from space and so, as the authors suggest. Again many thanks.

Thank you

Rad Antonov

Hi Thomas, not just story time but also not quite how I told it. It’s through cosmic rays, not beta decay that the weak force makes its chiral imprint on DNA: https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.12138

Hi Rad, that left hand neutrino paper, I would like to read. It's not just story time?

Yeah, Si-based organic chemistry has challenges that C-based does not, hence the carbon-chauvinism. Having said that, there are zillions of C-based molecules that could make up DNA, so why just the 4 across all species on Earth (and similarly for RNA)?

Rad Antonov

I find the idea that life is inevitable quite appealing.

Rad Antonov

Recently, PBS Space Time ran an episode that asked a similar question. The options for life’s chemistry are surprisingly few: https://youtu.be/469chceiiUQ As for DNA, I saw a paper once arguing that the helicity is the result of the universe containing only left handed neutrinos. I forgot the exact logic but it had something to do with beta decay being involved in the development of DNA molecules.

Wait for some days, until it's grown up to ten thousand. Are you psychologist? This is the best action against collective stupidity, I have seen in a while.

Isn't that called carbon-chauvinism? If life could exist in a totally different way in totally different environments, we should see it in the solar system. Well, there are some speculations, Venus atmosphere, Titan, Europa..... But even Mars seems to be just a rusty boulder.

May not have made front page news but I am sure excited to read your synopsis about those results! Thanks for putting this together Sabine!

I'm rather surprised by the observation that we all have basically the same DNA. There should be many chemicals capable of performing the same duties and there doesn't appear to be any specific reason for the tiny subset that comprise our DNA. I wonder, if we look at the goo around hydrothermal vents, would biologists recognize other forms of DNA in the goo? Would they dismiss it as contamination or some other chemistry, but not life? I, too, wonder what sort of chemical forcing led to our DNA and whether this chemistry is universal or specific to conditions on early Earth.

Thanks, Thomas. Someday I will share my Top Ten Tips for making a Top Ten List.

Tracey Token, you are great

I typed "origin of life" into Google and got back a definition from Oxford Languages, complete with a pronunciation sound file. It turns out that "life" is Germanic in origin, so there you have it, life on Earth began in central Europe and Scandinavia.

The difference between RNA and DNA is not that the one is single-stranded and the other is not, because there is also double-stranded RNA (dsRNA). Which is an important fact for our innate immune system because it can detect viral infection by the presence of dsRNA.

"life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution." Maybe it does not need to be chemical. In any case, the only life we now is all based on the same chemical architecture and components. Is this the life that is most likely in all the universe? Then, by convergent evolution, there may be humans out there, somewhere.


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