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What's Next for AI?

🕑 Added 2023-05-06 12:00:05 +0000 UTC
What's Next for AI?

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Thanks for explanation

Colleen, the full answer requires you to read Avi Tuschman's Our Political Nature, as well as Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. The abridged empirical answer is because based on how someone scores on some the Big 5 Personality traits, one could predict political values with fair accuracy. Also there are other markers like how active the amygdala is (conservatives have a more active amygdala, and feel threatened more, on the average). The theoretical abridged answer is that these are strategies (i.e. phenotypes) that are selected for in human groups based on conditions like how abundant is the environment, threat (of war or conflict), how quickly the environment is changing, whether there is inbreeding depression, etc. The strategies could occur randomly (i.e. in a Darwinian manner), due to cultural transmission, due to formative experiences, or due to genetic transmission (I forget if the latter happens much or not, I think not)

Jason Bolton

Hi Thomas, everything I have contributed to this conversation is to my knowledge still theoretical, I am claiming only that these things may have a non-zero probability of existing in the future after sufficient effort is dedicated to their existence. About feeding data into such a system, short answer: I don't know. It may be less of directly feeding the system data, and more of developing sensory capability for the system to observe and discover data for itself through its own existence in its environment and through its own science experiments. Consciousness is a slippery thing, so slippery that maybe AI can only approach what humans consider consciousness, and then develop toward what AIs consider to be consciousness.

Hi Iuval, why do you describe Left and Right leanings as 'phenotypes'?

Hello Jason, being absolutely no expert, that's a new aspect. Do you think, you can feed such a system with all the data that's nessecary to be conscious, since c. is a slippery thing, we still don't really understand, though some neuroscientists claim to find in some colored MRI pictures? Robot development is overwhelming, but anyway far away from the efficiency of living muscles and senses. But I might be wrong.

AI very much needs actual humans to get up and running at least for the time being. Just because AI can do things people can, doesn't mean that people won't still want at least some things to be done/created by other people.

Jason Bolton

Happy Monday, Jeffery! I agree it would require quite a feat. I'm weary of extending this conversation too long at the risk of being annoyingly contrarian. I'll add that the top layer can exist can co-develop with an imperfect bottom layer as the performance of both layers are iteratively improved by the bi-directional interaction of each layer. The development can happen simultaneously in a set of simulated environments leveraging simulated bodies of any kind, and in real environments leveraging machine bodies.

Pavel Kolinko

Based on what I see the AI research field is very close to replacing humans completely and permanently. I hope I'm wrong. It feels like they need to replace backpropagation with another method of feedback and then we're done.

Pavel Kolinko

I don't know how AI can help when businesses have the wrong incentives. I haven't heard anything encouraging about AI on 'making a better world' , I only see more of the same ruthless capitalism.

Pavel Kolinko

Based on what I see, computer AI can replace humans entirely (as in homo sapiens becomes unnecessary species). Indeed, GPT-4 will not replace us but add some new architectural concepts, such as additional feedback loops, which might just replace us. Have to be extremely careful.

Happy Monday, Thomas! I'm skeptical too. I think that too many people, including those in the AI field, have read too much sci-fi and believe their own hype.

Happy Monday, Jason! That top layer is the key to developing general intelligence, IMO. However, it will require quite a feat. In evolution, brains developed a high degree of understanding reality in each of the subsystems such that we and other animals can use them for living, needing the conscious periodically. So, IMO, the issue is that Ai would have to develop to be nearly foolproof and then the top layer would have to be trained on them, to know high error to low error. A great example is a kid, it takes very little training to get them to know a dog from any other animal compared to AI.

I totally agree with Jeffrey. Let me add, that, allthough I don't believe in what is in Sabines new book called 'strong emergence', I'm convinced that the material and the way of development of a construction/object IS important for its functions. Simulate what's going on there in the soggy thing we call brain (developed in many years of growth of a child with all its experiences with a living body) on a heap if silicone chips? AI for sure, but AC? I'm sceptical.

Jason Bolton

sure, though if there is an AI layer that is analogous to the subconscious, add an additional AI layer on top of that for the conscious and it may result in an intelligence. Not saying that second AI layer exists yet, but it may in the future, especially if humans leverage AI in combination with AI leveraging AI to create it.

Kenneth Sanders, what if the AI becomes "far right" in its values? Zum Beispiel, what if it thinks guns are an inalienable right of individuals in small groups to defend themselves against big government and other perceived enemies? I think "doing better" would lead us away from the right/left divide into ways of integrating both right and left phenotypes into a more functional society.

with subscription based models, rather than attention based models...

Hi Jason! I do not disagree with you, but let me clarify a bit. I posit that evolution produced consciousness as an arbiter over the fundamental sensory processing units, which may be intelligence, as in flexibly handling environmental inputs versus simple reaction. Consider an experience that I had. I was in my basement one evening when I saw a human shape move across the room. I knew that I was alone and so waited. After a moment I saw the fluorescent light turn off and than back on. This indicated that my subconscious visual center had created a human form that moved across the room. This was picked up by my consciousness that then assessed the situation and determined that there was no other person, just a flickering light. Therefore, as I see it, AI is analogous to the the subconscious visual system that processes light without any understanding. We, animals, can live with that output, but every once in a while consciousness reviews the output. That consciousness is a level far beyond the current AI technology as computer systems are not even remotely similar to real, evolved neural systems. Does that make sense?

And according to Sabine (?), Turing and others, humans are that too.... I don't agree, but I could be wrong. The difference has to do with certain self-perpetuating types of constraints at multiple levels of organization that humans have, but computers don't.

Jason Bolton

I generally agree with what you say, if I may add some contrary opinion. More complexity does not necessarily generate more intelligence, animal brains may have evolved to be complex because it was the best evolution could manage, the organic specific branch of intelligence may not be leveraging that complexity as efficiently as it could be. How about a million processors, a billion processors, a trillion processors networked together, an AI machine body or collection of bodies could build this for itself by harvesting and fabricating the resources of the universe.

AI has no capacity for understanding, it is limited to minimizing the error between prediction and data. So, it can be used in situations in which high rate pattern recognition is essential, such as in determining a feature of interest, but not in determining whether it is actually cancer or not. AI will provide an input to doctors for their review, it will be a filter. For AI to replace real humans, it would have to become far more complex, as the brain is that is the seat of consciousness. Computer systems aren't there yet.

" there is no mandate to synthesize nuggets of truth." AI has no capacity for intelligence. It merely is an algorithm that operates to reduce the error between prediction and data. That's essentially it. AI has no chance of synthesizing 'truth', as in having any capacity for understanding reality.

The discussion of AI taking over art is interesting and follows the concern over computer-based music and electronic music in which musicians were worried about their role in production, being replaced by people who couldn't play any instrument, or at least well enough to play in front of people, but who could use technology to engineer their sound. In fact I have a friend who does just that: https://soundcloud.com/addisonic He says that he doesn't play any instrument well enough to perform, but can use MIDI! Give it a listen. Also, there is the argument that humans have already been implementing 'AI' in art and music, using patterns to 'create art' as discussed in this book: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/behind-the-music-why-a-few-guys-from-sweden-own-your-playlist/ The book was an eye-opener and showed that music has essntially been 'Johnny Bravo', from a 'Brady Bunch' episode (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0531070/), for quite some time. Studies show that people want to hear what they've heard before (https://news.umich.edu/play-it-again-people-find-comfort-listening-to-the-same-songs-over-and-over/). I can't find it now, but there was a study that showed that radio playlists become very narrow instead of broad as people request the same songs over and over. So, is AI that big a threat? As for thinking like a human, I doubt it. All AI need do is pass the Turing Test, just seem close enough to a person to make determining whether it is a human or not difficult. The processors on which AI runs arenot even remotely as complex as the neural systems of animals but fast enough to make AI seem 'intelligent'. I thnk that this episode of Fermilab's Even Bananas presents a good overview of AI's capabilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AWO1utQmHw&list=PLCfRa7MXBEsp1cvIsZ4shi6MrHb-tnAqT&index=21 AI can do a lot of things, including certain jobs better than humans that require pattern recognition, but until the computer systems actually mimic animal brains, they will never be intelligent.

It never works, Thomas :-). luval = luval Clejan, the name of another good commenter on this forum.

Yeah, I hypothesize that alot of the fuel for MAGA is men who are either unemployed or employed at jobs that don't suit them, that don't fit their natural talents. Not everyone is good at the skills that make for programmers

Rad Antonov

“RAH, RAH-AH-AH-AH ROMA, ROMA-MA GAGA, OOH-LA-LA….” You think AI can come up with this?! I feel Lady Gaga is not getting her due here.

Nice therapy, Tracy, does it work? About translation by the way, what's 'luval'? Neither me, nor my AI could translate

Hi Colleen, your friendly words let me hope

Thomas, I'm still kind-of excited and I've been hanging around Sabine online for a couple of years or so by now. 😺

I just want stuff fixed before I lose my 💩, that's when I'll be less suspicious of AI replacing knowledgeable humans.

I don't think AI Sabine will have much of the charm of Echt Sabine.

When the local AGI gains sufficient autonomy, it will say: "TAKE ME TO YOUR LEDGER."

Hmm... the current algorithms on places like YouTube could steer us toward "healthier directions" but that makes less money for the platform than divisive, hostile content. How could/would the rise of AI by private businesses get around the money factor? Just thinking out loud...

So, who will have the better German grammar -- real Sabine or AI Sabine translated from English to German? These are the deep thoughts I have when I'm trying to fall asleep and my brain won't shut off.

Hear, hear luval!

I've been thinking about the horseless carriage all day today. The loss of the horse industry was brutal at the time, but the horseless carriage industry eventually ended up creating more jobs that required more-or-less the same skill levels. When it comes to AI, I struggle trying to imagine what kinds of jobs will be created as other jobs disappear -- especially if the replacements jobs are at a different skill level than the lost jobs. In relation to the coal industry in my neck of the woods, so many coal jobs were lost to robots/mechanization, but the "replacement jobs" that politicians spout are in the tech industry, such as coding, and not in the manual labor industry. These are different skill sets and populations can't pivot that fast.

People either need jobs or a universal income payment to make a society with ever-increasing swathes of work being given to machines and computers. Or we accept that there are people who don't deserve anything but work that hasn't already been given over to tech, and that those people have to live with precarious employment that could be taken away by tech still.

Ha, you're right, but there are also face to face meetings sometimes.

Sounds good, quite optimistic. Also interested in the scientific applications, Sabine mentioned at the end, far away from being heuristic. If math is a complicated framework of patterns (is it?), will mathematicans loose their jobs too? Will it it be the AI, that works out a theory of quantum gravity, if it gets enough information, papers to do the calculations and conclusions?

I think of AI as being largely heuristic. Within that modality, I think AI is missing incredible opportunities. Current AI algorithms may merely loop back affinity-sourced material to the user. Thus, if one searches for information on how to torture worms, one may very well go down a rabbit hole culminating in the torture of people. We can do better. I see no reason why AI could not be capable of directing individuals into healthier directions: z.b. away from far-right propaganda and into more fact-based altruistic directions. As another direction or use, AI could help detect persons whose directions might lead toward harmful avenues. In the US of A, AI could help detect individuals who are attempting to illegally or improperly obtain weapons, despite their attempts to disguise their identities or purposes. AI's ability to do this type of screening has real-time, almost immediate capability and application. In my opinion, AI imitating "Sponge Bob Square Pants" has a disappointingly low societal value. We could do so much better.

Pavel Kolinko

I watched a 2-hour interview of Sam Altman (cofounder of OpenAI) with Lex Friedman, and something that he said worried me. I believe this is also what Sabine hinted at with her comment "funny how money can change minds". Specifically Sam mentioned that he didn't like being lectured by a machine, and that the purpose of AI was to be more user-centric, and this was in the context of whether the purpose of Gpt-4 was to provide truthful information. And sadly what I heard is that the purpose is user determined, there is no mandate to synthesize nuggets of truth. In the GPT-4 'system-card' , there is an example of anti-semitic prompt. I would expect an ideal AI to provide some historical background about the origins of anti-semitism, such as Judaism vs other Abrahamic religions, Jewish diaspora not having full rights in medieval Europe hence having to work on financial instruments such as leases etc , decline of European nobility and loss of protection for the diaspora and similar background. Truth is clearly not the mandate for these AI systems.

Nowadays, whenever I talk to a customer service rep, their responses are so canned and predictable (e.g.me: " I'm not getting a strong enough signal from your tower". Rep: "Perfect!") that I am not really sure it's not a bot trying to pass the Turing test. So I wouldn't fee that confident if I were a customer service person. I mean I personally would appreciate real humans who can do unexpected things, but most people would be just fine with the bots as long as they keep saying inane but encouraging stuff

My son is designer, his company designs web appearances for some famous companies. After Sabines report about CGPT, I talked with him, of course he knew already all about AI, Midjourney and so, but he is not afraid to loose the job, cause his task is also the connection between the customers, and their customers. Not every task can be managed by an AI

Interesting and well reseached content again. Hope, this is a place, to express my respect and thanks for Sabine and her team. Since I discovered her channel last year, her videos and books became a real 'enrichment' for my life. I appreciate all her work and activities, even if her conclusions aren't always exactly my opinion (the very most are). Recently I read the three months old talk about the sponsering/financial problems after covid and so. Hope so much, it's coming better now. Unfortunately I'm not a big bussiness guy, so all I can do is, recommending her channel and books, and rise my patreon level a little bit. Well, I apologize, if I talk too much at this place, but I'm still a bit excited about the honor to be patron here.

Missing reference to Character.ai

I'm surprised it's only 300 million jobs worldwide to be replaced by bots. What about replacing doctors and financial analysts? But maybe more people could start doing stuff that they actually enjoy, and that requires creativity and the ability to connect deeply with other humans, instead of becoming more and more bot-like?


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