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An Air Condition for the Planet: How Would it Work?

🕑 Added 2023-02-25 13:01:01 +0000 UTC
An Air Condition for the Planet: How Would it Work?

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The only valid engineering solution to all human caused problems, including global warming, is to reengineer us, replace our extractive economy with a sustainable one; develop policies to get people to stop having kids to drive the population to well below two billion, etc. Too many people suffer the delusion that we can continue our wasteful and brutal business as usual because we can engineer our way out of any problem when it is business as usual that is the problem. IMO, this is because humans refuse to recognize their culpability due to theology, such as that 'image of god' thing and its resultant 'dominion' thing. The fact is that the market has never solved a problem, ever, competency and political will have. Solving the environmental problems that we cause requires them to change behavior, not in continuing the technical delusion that feeds the reluctance to change business as usual. Evolution has developed humans to be overoptimistic due to the fact that they haven't experienced catastrophe and if they had, lightening won't strike twice in the same place. It does.

The sun is NOT the problem, we are, our use of fossil fuels, overpopulation, destruction of entire ecosystems, slaughter of wildlife, industrial agriculture, an extractive economy, etc. We have been driving an extinction event that will culminate in a Permian Era scale event simply because the pace of climate change is far greater than evolution can accommodate and wildlife can't migrate to regions of habitable weather patterns due to human activity and presence.

I've heard this Pesochinsky chimney idea before, and I don't understand how it works. Sure, less dense air rises... but only till it reaches equilibrium. If the chimney is a column of equally hot air (because no blending, or according to Pesochinsky's YouTube video, no adiabatic cooling), then it will still be denser and more pressurized at the bottom than at the top, because of gravity: every molecule of air is at equilibrium between the upward force of the greater pressure below it, and the downward force of its weight. Which is why the air is thinner high up, regardless of chimneys, and yet most of the time there's not a 300mph vertical wind. So, okay, at the very top of the chimney you've got some thin 303K air meeting some thin 253K air, so maybe a bit of a pressure difference, but I imagine you need some of that pressure difference to power a balloon to hold up the weight of the chimney... is there enough left over to matter? Does it really scale up the way he implies? Is there any actual physics behind this idea?

I'm fine with the Sun killing us; it is the nature of stars to ultimately kill life in their planetary systems. But it would be nice if we didn't kill ourselves well before our star becomes an unpleasant neighbor.

Aleksei Besogonov

Do you know what is also "thermodynamically" bad for the Earth? Sun. It's slowly getting brighter and in a scant 200-300 million years will start making the Earth uninhabitable. In about 500 million years it will start overpowering the long-term carbon-dioxide based atmospheric temperature regulation and soon after the Earth will be devoid of most life.

It's pretty clear that, thermodynamically, human infestation is very bad for the planet. This reminds me of a Hitchhiker's Guide quote: “For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”

The ocean absorbs 42 times more carbon dioxide than the atmosphere. (See https://www.wri.org/insights/ocean-based-carbon-dioxide-removal) There are many methods of removing carbon from sea water, and many are currently being researched and tested. Further, when sea water absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, it acidifies the water making it difficult for sea life both plant-based and fish.

You say: "The most obvious way is to take carbon dioxide out of the air, which would cool the planet. But since plants need carbon dioxide, this too would ultimately not solve the problem." But we don't need to reduce all the carbon dioxide, only enough; and it would be more effective to remove from the sea, because the sea absorbs much more carbon dioxide than the air.

TIN CAN

We will fail

Danke sehr, Sabine ! Another super interesting video! I was a bit curious about the waste heat from other sources, too, like cars and ships engines for instance, compared with the contribution of CO2 to global warming.

Very helpful exposition. Thanks. One thing: your criticisms of SAI partly miss the point. Your criticisms of it specifically relevant to this video are, as you say, really about a distant future when waste heat becomes a main problem, not the present warming problem. You recognize the relevance of the time factor with regard to other solutions such as giant heat chimneys, because a sufficient time distance implies new technological and economic capabilities that can be expected to render some of those solutions viable. It would be better science – since we’re talking about applied science here, specifically climate management science, which is a time-dependent or historical science, not a relatively time-invariant fundamental physics matter - to recognize the relevance of the time factor for SAI too. SAI is meant, not as an eternal solution even for the present warming problem much less a distant future waste heat problem, but rather to help manage the present warming problem for an interim period when the warming is otherwise almost certainly going to be too damagingly great. That makes it not really relevant to dismiss it as not useful against waste heat. The question is its relevance prior to the rather distant time of waste heat becoming the main issue. Many of the other criticisms you give of SAI, such as that it doesn't reduce carbon nor ocean dealkalinization, are equally applicable to space mirrors, and to chimeys etc as well, making it misleading to lodge these criticisms solely against SAI. More importantly, these criticisms ignore the urgency factor of warming compared to dealkalinization or even decarbonization per se. Again, the time factor is critical here. Add time and the lower urgency problems will almost certainly be solved with the advance of technology and economy. The real question is how much time will need to be added for that, what effects those problems will have over that time period, the side effects also of SAI, and how to comparatively weigh those effects against the effects otherwise of the warming SAI blocks. I await with hope that you will soon provide a thorough, fairminded discussion of SAI. It deserves it, since on the evidence it is the one viable means of AC for the planet for the present-era warming problem. I honestly have to say here that I hope you are not too discouraged from this by social group pressures, or anti-scientific group attitude problems, which I suppose we all know can be found even among scientists, such as scoffing at it or deploring it. You’ve often courageously overcome these obstacles in your own scientific community in the past, sticking out your neck quite a bit on fundamental physics issues, and I hope you’ll be able to do it on this matter also.

Hi Sabine, Thanks a lot for this well elaborated and connected article.


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