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The Untapped Potential of Geothermal Energy

🕑 Added 2023-02-18 13:00:03 +0000 UTC
The Untapped Potential of Geothermal Energy

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My feeling is that it isn't a waste of money, but a lack of leadership at the federal level, regardless of which country we're talking about. See my post about small-scale geothermal using heat pumps. That is something that can be used in individual homes and city buildings, but the upfront cost is greater, thus requiring leadership to fund its development and implementation as the long term costs are far less. The US tends to think only 10 minutes into the future and relies on 'the market', which doesn't work for environmental, social scale problems.

The one mode of geothermal that you didn't cover was that used with a heat pump (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/geothermal-heat-pumps). I am a city of Elgin Illinois Sustainability Commissioner and had the experience of hearing a presentation of such a system installed in a church just outside Chicago. The presenter is a HVAC professional and the overall energy use reduction was phenomenal, especially since the structure was made more efficient. This level of geothermal can be used everywhere as it uses the mass of the earth as the exchange medium rather than steam generating heat. The problem is in the cost of the drilling. New construction can use any of the types shown in that link, while existing structures would tend toward either the vertical closed-loop or the open-loop systems. We would like to make this affordable somehow to reduce the energy Elgin uses as a city.

Rad Antonov

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Tracey. I like how you said it, “It’s in our nature to try to intuitively interpret constants of nature.”

I wonder if the industry is just going through difficulties in establishing the infrastructure or if it's all a gross waste of money, effort and equipment.

Yes, I have thoughts... First, I've always been bothered by the accelerating expansion of the universe. I can't help but feel that there is a big interpretation error, something like Subir Sarkar and his group point out with certain systematic uncertainties that have not been properly accounted for. This is my own personal hangup, so let's concede that the expansion of the universe really is accelerating. Some background for others who might be listening in, the cosmological constant is a fundamental constant of nature due to the geometry of spacetime. Just like c or epsilon_nought, there doesn't need to be an explanation for it, this is just how our universe works. We could stop right here -- no further explanation needed, but that would be unsatisfying. It is in our nature to try to intuitively interpret constants of nature. For example, the permittivity of free space, epsilon_nought, can be thought of as the capacitance of a vacuum or how nature permits an electric field to form around charges. When it comes to the cosmological constant, our intuition is that it acts as a pressure or energy that not only opposes the gravitational attraction between things on large scales, but that also results in an acceleration of the expansion. This, of course, could be a completely wrong interpretation. But theorists press on -- what could cause this pressure and what could cause a change in this pressure over time (the Hubble tension problem)? /end{background} This black hole group, with a whopping sample of 5 high redshift black holes and 1 local black hole, seems to have confirmed that their model can reproduce a time-varying pressure. I have no doubt that these researchers dotted their i's and crossed their t's and their model is certainly plausible, but they may also have solved a problem that doesn't exist. I do especially like that they put forward some things astronomers can look for to confirm or deny their hypothesis. In particular, I had thought that MACHO's were completely dead due to all of the null results from microlensing experiments. However, this group posits that MACHO's could still exist below our current detection limits. A renewed microlensing search with newer, better detectors on bigger, better telescopes might find something useful, if these guys really are right.

Rad Antonov

Oops, once again, messed up the reply placement, see 👇

Rad Antonov

Hi Tracey, I sure am glad you didn’t hold back. Interesting story and now that I know, I’ll join you on that hill. I first heard a pre-school girl tell the audience Pluto was a planetoid. She said it with such glee, I knew it had to be true! She has informed her father of many other things since and there is no doubt more to come. Question for you, have you seen this paper claiming that black hole interiors are vacuum energy and taken as background can account for the value of the cosmological constant? They looked at SBMH masses in elliptical galaxies at different Z and conclude the masses are inconsistent with mere accretion of baryonic matter. At least that’s my understanding: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/acb704

It's always nice to have my own personal ignorance confronted and corrected. I had not appreciated the technical issues, the cost, or the politics surrounding why geothermal just hasn't taken off as a reliable energy source. Now, about Pluto... I was at the 2006 International Astronomical Union meeting in Prague when the official vote was cast to downgrade Pluto and it was the right thing to do. There, I've said it and I will die defending this hill. We were following the precedent set when all of the big asteroids in the Main Asteroid Belt (Ceres, Pallas, Vesta, etc) were downgraded in the late 1800s -- yes, there were officially something like 40 planets or so at one time before astronomers realized that most of them defined an asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Oh, and it's cruel to make 4th graders memorize 40-some planets. When Mike Brown discovered Eris, which was originally thought to be larger than Pluto, he thought he would go down in history as the discoverer of the 10th planet, but that was not meant to be. Now we know that Pluto, Eris, and a whole lot of other icy bodies form a 2nd asteroid belt that we now call the Kuiper Belt. And another thing, Pluto was not downgraded because it didn't fit the definition of a planet. Astronomers had never had a formal definition of the word planet prior to 2006 -- the word planet just comes from the Roman word for "wanderer". Pluto was first downgraded _and then_ a definition of planet was devised to keep the big 8 and specifically exclude anything in an asteroid belt. But at the same time, a new class of object was created to hold Pluto, Eris, and a few other asteroids as Dwarf Planets and good old Ceres, remember him from the Main Asteroid Belt, was upgraded into this new class. Yes, you can certainly say dwarf planets are still planets, but you're just living in a delusion. I know, off topic and TMI to rebut a joke, but I couldn't help myself :-).

Good one. Thank you Sabine and team.

Polar Per

Maybe there are better solutions, than drilling into the ground?

TIN CAN

25 years ago a Brit was fed up. He spent $30k for what I think was Heat Pump Earth Loop not buried that deep. Evanston IL.

Rad Antonov

Not true. Pluto is not a planet, it’s a planetoid, whatever that means 😂. Everything else is spot on. The only reason we chalked up a small return on the geothermal restructuring was a government tax incentive program that provided a cash rebate for the cost renewable energy projects regardless of ownership continuity. In other words, taking over as a new owner in Chapter 11 did not disallow the tax benefit. The initial owners who spent most of the money got nothing. Aside from drilling costs, which as you say can become astronomical, the other costs that are often ignored in planning are the legal fees these projects consume. Waging battles with various creditor groups, equipment vendors, E&C contractors and local farms consumes astronomical billable hours.


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