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Science News Nov 16

🕑 Added 2022-11-16 16:00:11 +0000 UTC
Science News Nov 16

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The Oort cloud is more than 2000 AU from the Sun so the orbital periods would be more than 90000 years. With a time difference of 151 years, 114 years, and 219 years between several of the Miyake events, this would correspond to an orbit between Neptune and Pluto, so we're talking Kuiper belt, not the Oort cloud. If you want to make the body quite small, such that ancient astronomers wouldn't have detected it when it was in the inner solar system, then its influence on the Earth or the Sun would be correspondingly small. Consider, for example, sungrazing comets. There are over 100 sungrazing comets every year that are undetectable to the human eye, but have been detected crashing into the Sun by SOHO. We don't have any Miyake or Carrington-like events or even any solar events associated with the sungrazer comets. I'm not trying to be a dick here by pointing out some unfortunate numbers. I genuinely like your idea and that is why I replied as a means of contributing to the conversation. I agree with both you and Einstein that imagination is important, but I also agree with Walter Kotschnig (and later Feynman and Sagan) that my mind shouldn't be so open that my brains fall out. Finding the right balance between imagination and buzzkill is hard -- my social skills are poor in this regard.

D Brown

1: " So for a period of 200 years..." Which would suggest it is from the Oort cloud. 2: "then the ancient astronomers...": Unlike current astronomers with their advanced knowledge and orders of magnitude viewing/detection capabilities were able to easily detect/view Oumuamua. 3: "Imagination is more important than knowledge": Albert Einstein.

Spot on. I forgot about that "respect all beliefs", it depends on where my mind is at the moment. I don't consider the balance tough, it's in the evidence. If there's no evidence then it's not valid to discuss except in the context of what experiments or research is needed to gather evidence.

I completely agree with you in principle, Jeffery. In practice, though... In addition to the "two-sides" problem, there is the "respect all beliefs" problem. Finding the balance between "not giving the ridiculous a platform at all" and "casting light on the ridiculous to show how ridiculous it is" is tough.

I argue that a good education sets people up better than a poor one and not promoting reality, as in "there are two sides". Arguing that there are two sides when there are not, such as with creationism, creates the false impression that unsupported claims have the same validity as supported claims, such as seen in the fossil record and DNA correspondences that support evolution and nothing that supports creationism. So, I think that problem lay more with that false assumption that there are "two sides" when it is whether evidence and data exist or not. This is seen in the debate in which Machio argues for the multiverse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39kfrxOSHg&t=8s) when there is nothing supporting it. IMO, presenting him when there is absolutely no evidence to support it, no more than that which supports the existence of god, makes it appear that it is a valid scientific discussion when it is not. Michio is bright and should know better and is a credentialed physicist and so lends an air of respectability to an idea that should not be presented as science but seems to be due to it being the "other side" to our observed single universe cosmology.

The approach of "what ails the education system?" is not necessarily a productive one. People have always had problems separating fact from fiction, have always been guided by their own biases, and have always been mathematically and scientifically illiterate. My students, for example, know that they need to read all sources critically, but they do not understand science/math enough to do so and they trust their family and friends as sources. Even the "smart" ones are too damned lazy to properly research or even research at all. I think the difference between the "old" ignorance and the "new" ignorance showcased in the U. of Chicago case linked a couple posts above is that the internet emboldens the new ignorance to become weaponized.

Tracey, I find myself fact checking more today. I'll hear or read something and get sidelined by googling it to see what comes up. When I post a comment on say the Covid-19 vaccines, I get a huge amount of disinformation if not outright lies as replies because whoever posted them either has never read valid information, is incapable of admitting expert information is better than what they're hearing from either ideologues or demagogues or is purposefully lying for their own reason. Not everyone even remotely tries to get "it" right, whatever "it" is. Before the Internet one would have to search out other conspiracists, liars, etc, but now they can simply aggregate and post their nonsense all over forums because there is little moderation, mostly that due to the false "there are always two sides to an argument" claim, IMO.

Regarding Zimmerman's quote, I've been reading about what ails the American education system and don't have much hope at the moment. For example: https://click.email.wbez.org/?qs=907b93b1824329fbb8b9e6212e47eb0c6cc038451c9fec09742d23d999fa87b0188ac2ecc503a418ff8e38e83f72f30fe9afd94a6fd11662 The protester simply moves to cancel the discussion. This is something that people along the conservative/liberal spectrum do today, cancelling discussion that is a means of telling people what to think. On the other hand, there is the push from religious groups to "open up" the discussion (http://therevisionariesmovie.com/index.html) that is their means of implying that providing people with scientific information is "telling them what to think!

I'm with you guys on this -- I'm just as confused how society functions with the level of aggressive ignorance so many people have -- and to be fair, I'm not immune from passively agreeing with misinformation that supports what I believe either. Back in the "good ole days", we all got the same information from TV news and print media regardless of where we lived or which station the TV was on -- some of it may have been incorrect, but at least they tried to get it right. Now the media is about partisan factions with little oversight producing content that sells to their insular audience, damned be the fact checking.

Hmmm.... One of Kepler's laws of planetary orbits is that the P^2 = k a^3, where P is the period of the orbit, a is the semi-major axis of the orbit, and k is the constant of proportionality (k = 1 yr^2/AU^3 for the solar system). So for a period of 200 years, for example, the semi-major axis of the orbit would be 34 AU, which is between Neptune and Pluto. If this mysterious interloper had a highly eccentric orbit, like Halley's comet for example, then the ancient astronomers from the three most recent Miyake events would have noted it in their records as a new star that brightened for a period of several years and then dimmed, similar to records of supernovae that we have from that time period. Carbon-14 is extremely rare (0.0001% of all C on Earth), but it is produced naturally when cosmic rays strike nitrogen in the atmosphere -- this is by far the most common source of C-14. It seems that trying to find an event that produced extra cosmic rays is a bit of a pickle. I wonder if they're approaching the problem wrong as well. What if, rather than asking what could account for an increase in cosmic rays, perhaps ask what could weaken the Earth's magnetosphere to allow more cosmic rays to penetrate to the upper atmosphere. But still, I would naively expect side effects of a weakened magnetosphere to show up in other ancient records.

Rad Antonov

I too enjoyed that parenthetical by Trey. Zimmerman certainly tells some entertaining stories, but ultimately makes a bold claim: “You cannot praise America for cultivating individual freedom of thought, then proceed to tell every individual what to think,” he concludes. “But that is exactly what most of our schoolbooks continue to do.”

Happy Thursday! Thanks for that link. What I found very interesting is this: "...and they’re all Democrats, virtually every single one,” he says, slipping momentarily into hyperbole." Trey Popp then provides a reference to a study that refutes Zimmerman's claim that only Boulder CO Democrats didn't vaccinate their kids. The media does a poor job itself, IMO, to fact-check its work before it gets sent out. For example, reporters have stated that people lost trust in government directives because the Covid-19 vaccines failed to prevent infections when vaccines do NOT prevent infections, they help reduce the risk of severe infection and death. Their lack of competency allows them to provide misinformation that adds to the confusion because they a) have interviewed people with a lack of competence and therefore do not understand their own lack of understanding and (b) have not searched for people with the requisite competence, probably because they felt that the person that they did interview had it, a catch-22 situation.

Which has me wondering what that planet would be made of to cause such events.

Rad Antonov

Fair point and an interesting, albeit long piece on the broader topic of some root causes can be found here: https://thepenngazette.com/the-history-wars/

D Brown

As opposed random bursts of energy, Miyake events seem to be semiregular in nature. Is this possibly evidence of close encounters with the enigmatic planet X (or is it IX)?

Regarding dis and misinformation and their acceptance in the US, that we have so many people who chose to not verify what they hear and read is really scary. I'm surprised that we've lasted this long.


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