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Quantum Winter Is Coming

🕑 Added 2022-11-05 13:00:08 +0000 UTC
Quantum Winter Is Coming

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Michiel Peeraer

The Quantum Bubble Is About To Burst, or be surpassed by a 'new' kid on the block. I just finished reading Audrey Dussutour's book "Moi le blob" ISBN 978-2-3793-1558-9 The references started with "Adamatzky A., Advances in Physarum machines: Sensing and computing with slime mould, Springer 2016." Further reading up on "Physarum polycephalum", I encountered that Shor's algorithm (of Quantum computing fame) had been ported to it. Admittedly inefficiëntly, but still. Since it has a much lower costs than a Quantum computer (basically some agar-agar and oat flakes) this story may have legs... or at least pseudopods : "Slime mold on the rise: The physics of Physarum polycephalum" https://doi.org/10.1088/1361-6463/ab866c

Today IBM has a computer with 433 qubits... In 2025 they expect to have 4000 qubits? Anything useful to do with that? https://techmonitor.ai/technology/emerging-technology/ibm-quantum-supercomputer

Rad Antonov

Appreciate you taking the time to explain Tracey. I had looked up the difference between adding and multiplying interferometers and the equation for the adding ones had an extra term, which I understood to be for the electric field at a single dish, in addition to the cosφ term of the visibility correlation. I am pining for a planetary image that actually shows some detail.

Not sure.... In an adding interferometer, you get a constant term + interference term for each baseline pair where the constant term contains the single-dish brightness information from the source, but it also contains instrumental gain variations and other sources of noise or systematic bias. Is that the E_0 you're thinking of? There is no such term in a multiplying interferometer, just the complex amplitude and phase visibilities of each baseline pair. If the source is small-ish with respect to the primary beam (and you have good short baseline information), then a good guess can be made for the zero-spacing flux -- or rather, in a u-v plot, you can see where the short-baseline data would likely cross the amplitude axis at a baseline length of 0. For extended sources, you may not care about the total brightness, you may just be interested in the structure of the smallest features, such as right up close to a central black hole of a galaxy. Then, who cares about short-baseline information. But currently, if you need to make an image of an extended, complicated source where you need both very long and very short baseline information, then you have to observe with a single dish as well as an interferometer -- SN1006 is a classic example of this sort of source. It looks like for CMB studies, they're using bolometer arrays in an adding interferometer configuration. Hmm... I should do some reading on what they're doing to beat down their noise and systematics.

From Arvin's video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCj_BJ6BddM) starting at ~10:16, quantum computing appears to be more geared to specific tasks, such as finding the correct path through the maze, faster than with a conventional computer can and so would play a niche role in computing. For example, specific tasks from a conventional computing platform would be offloaded to a quantum computer, such as specific routines in a complex simulation, to speed the overall process up and reduce the need for supercomputers, such as with modeling the potential path of a hurricane faster to improve response. I have never looked into the details, such as Lov Grover's algorithm (at ~9:31), so Arvin's more constricted example makes sense, whereas the general claims that I hear make it sound as though quantum computing would replace conventional computing altogether. So, I can see the collapse from the lack of real need of what quantum computers do better than conventional computers because the power of conventional computers is adequate in most cases.

Rad Antonov

The E ₒ² term?

IR and optical VLBI would be a game changer. It looks like no instrumentation has been developed in the article, so their idea might be a long ways off. For anyone who might be listening in on this conversation, in normal radio interferometry, say the VLA, you can be off in your interference by up to a quarter wavelength, then rely on the redundancy of all of your baselines to give you good phase and amplitude solutions overall. Optical interferometers cannot deal with this sort of sloppiness at all, mostly because they only have a few telescopes in their array and so N(N-1)/2 baselines is too small to beat down the noise effectively. The longer the baseline, the harder it is to measure the distance between telescopes accurately enough and therefore higher noise. I see something like the STIRAP system in the article as being useful for regular, "short baseline" interferometry as well. All interferometers are multiplying interferometers which chuck out the single telescope information in favor of lower noise. By working as adding interferometers, they could keep the single telescope information and give much better final images.

Rad Antonov

Not only is the Josephson effect remarkable to observe, but it’s turned out to have powerful applications. Now back to quantum computing and offshoots, what do you make of proposals to use QEC techniques for VLBI in the optical frequencies? https://phys.org/news/2022-05-quantum-technique-enable-telescopes-size.html

That's a future industrial-techno-glitch-noise music project, Armando. 😆

Ah, right. 😕

Armando Mistral

"Stinking Heads" -- the great Grunge band of 1985. It didn't exist, but should have.

Armando Mistral

There are two realities at work here: scientific and economic. In classical investment economics the two had some correlation, more or less in real-time (see the Chicago School of Efficient Markets.... or not). That correlation has been broken by the vast wealth awash throughout our civilization now, which enables Stupid Money to pursue objectively absurd technologies for protracted periods before the inevitable crunch. Money can now afford to be stupid, it couldn't before. There is therefore no meaningful information value in how much money is being plowed into something, indicating that something's viability in objective reality (subjective realities, see a lot of Social Media, need not apply). Results may vary.

I know, what he's quoting seems mostly explorative, speculative.

There's nothing there that proves Sabine entirely wrong, but maybe I'm misunderstanding Wang? Is everything he's discussed speculative or has any of it actually happening?

I respect Brian Wang's analysis in several areas. This one?? https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2022/11/ionq-quantum-computers-versus-skeptics.html

My first thought was that an experimentalist would not necessarily be trying to demonstrate superdeterminism, but they might accidentally find it when the statistics of their system come out wonky. Then, I reread the video transcript, and current qubit systems undergo crosstalk which makes the systems look less independent than they should be -- damn systematics!

Rad Antonov

The experimental challenge seems to me is to rule out systematic effects and an experimentalist would be reluctant to sign on for that because they wouldn’t exactly be looking for a prediction, just a hint that something anomalous is going on.

Any unlabelled heads will be cleared out each Friday afternoon.

Rad Antonov

The idea behind those experiments is to look for autocorrelation in repeated measurements where quantum mechanics predicts the outcomes will be random. Repeating them at small time intervals and low temperatures will minimize the thermal fluctuations that can change the settings between measurements.

1. remember to label your frozen head, 2. do not take anyone else's frozen head, and 3. any frozen heads that start to stink will be thrown away, no exceptions

Thanks for laying out the history. I've never been one for the instrumentation side of astronomy, but I was once involved in an X-ray polarimetry proposal in which SQUIDS were to be used in some capacity. Now I have an anchor point for their importance in general.

Would that data be obtainable from doing the quickly-repeated experiments written about, or would that experimentation come after that data? Sorry if my line of questioning is nonsensical. (I just looked up 'asymptotic freedom', I think I understand what it means. I'm glad I remembered what an 'asymptote' is from high-school maths.)

Rad Antonov

Could be, but above all it requires new data to guide the theorists. That doesn’t necessarily mean a bigger collider, not that there is any chance another one will be built in our lifetimes. It could come from working on problems that presently get swept under the rug. For example, for all its glory, the Standard Model only makes testable predictions under conditions of asymptotic freedom. QCD isn’t particularly good at predicting properties you might actually care about, like the mass of a proton.

PLEASE DON'T STORE THE CRYOGENICALLY FROZEN HEADS WITH THE BOOZE, THANK YOU. Much appreciated.

Armando Mistral

Well, the savagery of this takedown was absolutely up to Sabine's standards. Bravo. There were several points where I had to just pause in order to collect myself, freeze their heads indeed. The cheerleaders for this dreck will soon declare that the bubble is quantum, and not classical, and so making a profit is passe and irrelevant. The 80's called and wants its money back.

We have other bubbles in physics, however also those which may be solved easier than this quantum computing. The open problems dark matter and dark energy will turn out to be a test of Einstein's GRT. I have already offered a bet over € 50'000 that this test will be negative.

Interesting.

Rad Antonov

I am intrigued and hope it leads to a distinct prediction that an experimentalist can endeavor to measure. If you allow me to speculate, I am wondering if attempts to treat spacetime as emerging from the entanglement of quantum field theories may be related. In a sense, the where and when of the detector settings are the manifestation of the entanglement that give rise to notions of cause and effect at the macro level.

@Rad: Hi, what do you think of the work on Superdeterminism by Sabine et. al.?

Rad Antonov

The hardware for quantum computing is itself an offshoot of advancements in nano fabrication techniques to build bolometer arrays for mm wave astronomy that utilize SQUIDS as amplifiers. Keating had an observational cosmology guest on one of his podcasts who indicated that graduate students who knew how to operate a dilution refrigerator were in strong demand by the quantum computing crowd. The SQUIDs were in turn originally made to study superconductivity. Ion trap quantum computing seems to me is very much the offshoot of atomic physicists figuring out how to make BECs. Point being, if we keep supporting basic research, we will always have offshoots. Let the VCs and industry worry about commercializing them and take the hit when they fail. As for Superdeterminism, unless it can make a definitive prediction that is different from garden variety quantum mechanics, it will remain untestable, no matter the engineering breakthrough. Right now, it’s still just another interpretation. P.S. I’ve mentioned it before, but it’s worth mentioning again. The quantum computing course by Brilliant is really well done: https://brilliant.org/courses/quantum-computing/

Lots of conflicting thoughts going through my head on this one. So many times, engineering problems, which quantum computing is, just need tons of money thrown in their direction for breakthroughs to happen. But without a major breakthrough in a reasonable amount of time, the bubble will burst with consequences for all research with the word "quantum" attached to it. How many cycles of "a major breakthrough is expected in the next 10 years" will it take to burst the bubble? Then, I wonder what useful engineering will be developed even if quantum computing never really comes to fruition. For example, might there be advances in cryotechnology and super low noise entangled qubit systems that will allow robust tests of superdeterminism? I also wonder if another technology will come along that will match the expectations of quantum computing, but the engineering difficulties will be more easily solved. I don't have anything in mind, just spitballing here.

So, no need for post-quantum crypto and Bitcoin is staying. "Nature’s a bitch sometimes." Yeah!

As one who is involved in cybersecurity, I wish you had discussed the applicability of quantum computing to encryption/decryption. There is a lot of FUD being spread out there and it is even affecting me. LOL

I agree with your skepticism, but you may have to write another blog post when those who are financially dependent on the funders believing the hype start attacking. I used to work for a medium-large computer company and my neighbor, who is a well-read retired engineer, had asked me several times about whether we were going to do a quantum computer. My reply was, "No. We wait until a technology works and then if we could figure out how to build and service such a device and make a profit we would jump in." We had zero people on payroll looking at that. One area I would like to see an advance is molecular dynamics. A complex molecule just finds its minimum energy state all by itself; a supercomputer would take hundreds or thousands of hours to approximate it using today's best algorithms. Will quantum computers help? Maybe, but, as you say, you gotta build one.

The stochastic processes in my brain say that proton-boron fusion would be a better investment. That does not mean it would be good investment, just better (estimated expected value) based on the odds and the potential payback.

This seems like String Theory and the Multiverse kind of thing. I'm wondering how many bottles of beer and cider could go into those fridges.


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