Post "Fireside Chat for WWW ep11 "Promises Promises"" by "worldsbeyondnumber"

Zoe

I agree with adonis on this, there is no middle to 10, 5 and 6 share it

Archon of Commoragh

The end was oof.

CommodoreBlue

Ame cleaning the temple reminded me of Danielle Barkstock cleaning the temple after Stone Temple Pile Up, along with the rest of The Seven. It felt a almost like a callback

Cur

I want to follow y'all on Duo 🥺

Smitty

I cannot believe the Fireside Chat has brought up my favorite obscure ancient meme, "I'd give it a perfect 5/7"

Isabella Mazzone

Ciao amici! Sono indietro e sto correndo per recuperare tutti gli episodi e, maremma, che gran lavoro! I am using italian to better express my joy, I'm so grateful to have found this piece of media and art. Thank you so much! And if you ever want to practice italian, ehi, let me know! Baci da Ferrara!

Krusty Bo Busty

Halfway between 1 - 10 is 5.5, while halfway between 1 - 7 is 4

Atkella

Adonis is correct that a 1-7 scale does have a natural middle point that a 1-10 scale doesn't

varygoode

I'm very very late to these comments, so I don't know if someone shared this already, but there's a Snopes entry about that image of the fox and the hounds! It's from a Photoshop contest! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-and-the-hounds/

Boston Brimhall

Me encantó escuchar el español de Brennan

Tineke Matthewson

i’m behind and catching up but i really love the discussion of the witch class because like. i’m always a big fan of buckling down into the source of magic for each class and how the witch class it seems like it’s. like communal responsibility almost? it’s such an interesting root for a character.

Callahan Noelle Davenport

Okay but how is Brennan going to react when he finds out that the IB DP program is fully built on a 7 scale

thequeercat

I think an agree/disagree situation is a useful way to illustrate the logic of the 1-7 scale (strongly, in between, and somewhat agree/disagree on either side, neutral in the middle)

Marcel de Jong

Is it the one called “Crossing Ireland By Train” written by Phoebe Smith and read by Cillian Murphy?

Marcel de Jong

Which Calm sleep story did mr Guntz mean? I can’t find the one about the Tuatha Dé Dannan. Overall I give this episode a perfect 5 out of 7.

Liv

I absolutely agree with Brennan that diplomacy and compassion is such an undervalued trait in our world and in our stories. That's why growing up I always clung to those rare characters that got treasured for their kindness, it meant so much to me to see

Silje Dahl

I need to see the image that was referred to of a fox blending in with hunting hounds!!

Katlynn

I half expected Brennan to yell “get in the comments!” After Mr. Gunz dropped that 1-7 scale.

Rebecca McLaughlin

OK FINE I have joined Duolingo this week to pick back up the Spanish I haven’t practiced since highschool/college

Lynx

36:25 where Brennan casually acts out a whole scene of a TPK, moments before disaster, was one of the best things I've ever listened to. The whole cast is truly so amazing and every new episode just proves it!

amoonheart

brennannnnn, as a quantitative researcher, a 7-point-likert-scale is *peeerfectly* reasonable and valid ! 🦊❤️‍🔥

SvenTS

Not sure the exact date of starting to record from the beginning but after the most recent recording session they've done at least up to episode 23 and possibly further.

anna

Who’s gonna tell Brennan that in Australia our GPAs are measured on a scale of 1-7…

Alex Barnes

Y’all, Silo is good TV if you need something to do right now. Fingers crossed to listen in the morning, but I love y’all and hope you’re doing well while we all wait at varying degrees of patience.

Greg Mellander

They've mentioned having a lot of episodes recorded ahead of these firesides, it makes me wonder how far ahead they are and when recording started for the podcast?

Mel Kepler

in which Brennan is destroyed by Likert Scales

Jon Reeves

How has no ome mentioned that the 7 vs 10 argument totally depends on if you include 0, do a 0-10 scale, baddabing baddaboom balanced

Strange Universe

It's a dumb, fun movie but when I think of someone resisting the allure of violence I think of The Rundown with The Rock's character constantly resisting the urge to pick up a gun. Granted, he eventually does and it's amazing, but like I said it's a dumb fun movie lol

Kim Harris

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likert_scale for Brennan

Worlds Beyond Number

Nope! -t

BellBoy

7

Tangerine 15

"A miniskirt of a sleeping bag" 😂

Zealos

Not sure where to ask question, but here goes. Are witches only female? I'm guessing not, but I'm unsure since we've only see Ame and Grandma Wren. Can't wait to for it to be released to the public!

Piras

Love Erika freaking out about new Brennan lore, because same

Piras

7 scales are often used for psychology tests (the mbti being a famous example). Love you guys, is all fun and games

Rafael C

god, that's so true. Suvi trying to be everything to everyone, and fucking up both things she's supposed to be.... I'm in this image and I don't like it (that's a lie I love it. TFW you're an Ame in ideals and a Suvi in responsabilities. College is a nightmare, anyway. Great 'sode) [I finished listening and. I need to reiterate just how important the four of you guys are. Thank you so much for every word. Your positive impact footprint (? y'know, the ripple effect) is immeasurable, I hope y'all know that. 💛]

Sol

can't express how much joy i get for seeing so much support for the 7-point metric in the comments. i've been pushin' 7-point scales on my friends for **decades** to no avail, and to hear THE Adonis Gunz (you could hear the 'z') present and defend the concept so deftly? *chef's kiss*

Emma Evans

"Me at my angriest is not me at my most honest"

Dave Thomer

I think the comment was directed at Ame and Eursulon, who wouldn't have seen Steel since then. The transcript says "... standing there, is a woman in gold armor, a woman you have not seen since she came to deliver heartbreaking news to a young Suvi, at the end of that magical summer, when Suvi had to learn that her parents were not coming to collect her." I think the use of third person to identify Suvi is indicating that she's not included in/intended by the "you."

Chris Sniezek

I could be wrong, but I think Brennan misspoke during this episode about when it last was that Suvi had seen Steel. Latest mirror conversation aside, I thought Steel was at Suvi's graduation at the Citadel. But Brennan said at just after 1:13 of this episode that Suvi hadn't seen Steel since she came for her as a young girl at Grandmother Ren's.

thedragonllama

The real question is if the scales use "0" or not

Chris Sniezek

https://www.surveysensum.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-likert-scale#7-point%20likert%20scale

KP

Here for the Duolingo chat! I literally got to a 999 streak today (small brag) and I'm TERRIFIED I will forget to do a lesson tomorrow and watch it all come crashing down around my ears 😅

Phoenix Johnstone

Just started listening & really amused bc I only just committed to Super Duolingo the other day.

Patrick Massey

Mitski just put out Eursalon's theme, "Bug Like an Angel"

Cricket Carletta

Honestly obsessed with Suvi's gifted kid with burnout arc. A little too relatable tbh

Grant Bowering

Came here to write the same thing 🤣

Kitty Stryker

Also I need a teeshirt that says "I wanna be in the Learning Casino"

Kitty Stryker

Here for Duolingo accountability buddies - kittystryker, 197 day streak!

Julia V

592 day Duolingo streak 😎 let’s be Duo buddies

Patrick Coleman

So is there a world in which we get access to the character playlists???? I would love to hear them! And maybe we all would!

Fia L.

Brennan talking about how when facing things like empire, and choosing not to violent when the world itself rewards violence reminds me a lot of The Last Airbender, specifically how Aang, when being told by everyone, including his own past lives, that killing Ozai was morally justified, that the world would be better with him dead, chose instead to spare him, and in doing so healed a violent world with peace.

Ebony Beck

I second this!

Carrie Mook Bridgman

"When you're going for a low blow and say something you suddenly realize is something you actually believe and not just the meanest possible thing to say." Ouch.

Carrie Mook Bridgman

I'm not entirely sure Ame has messed it up in the end. The witch who was not intimidated by Orima will not be easily intimidated by Steel. Steel may be to Suvi what Grandma Wren is to Ame, but Ame does not have those connections. Steel is not wanting to hear excuses from Suvi. Ame *might* eventually be able to make Steel see that explanations and excuses are two different things, and judging prior to having the facts is a bad idea. But how much will they tell Steel?

Carrie Mook Bridgman

Especially since it sounds like he started learning as an adult, through Duolingo. Picking up accents is much, much easier for children.

Carrie Mook Bridgman

When Ame recognized the bowl that the offering was in, I immediately wanted to know if the food was fresh or had been sitting in the heat for several weeks. They didn't say, and the characters were too busy freaking out over Orima to wonder about it. If Aabriya had just gotten a better roll on that insight check!

C@SdS

I love the discussion the group has about conflict and saying the thing that is neither fully believed nor only because you are angry, and it reminds me of how much complexity we hold as whole humans, and that as Walt Whitman said, "Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes."

Candy Emberley

I laughed so hard at this one. 1-7 as a rating system is so, so good. It has a clear center neutral, extremes, and a little bit of wiggle room on the side of each of those. I think maybe 0-10 (an 11 point system) has been shown to be the "best" at getting the most meaningful data responses when precision is needed, but anecdotally I think 1-7 is easier for people to give a gut response to, so there's far less mental quibbling and much more confidence in the response.

Sheri DePuy

I looooooooove that Brennan and I both went to SUNY UCCC and we BOTH had no clue there were ANY sports teams! 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 #artstudent

Alejandro Toro

Oh yeah. I meant it as a compliment. The cringe comes from the uncanny valley of being SO CLOSE, but slightly off. The fact that he's managed this much is amazing and far more than a lot of people do.

Ignacio Segura Montero

Just want to raise my hand as well in requesting those character playlists.

Ignacio Segura Montero

But the fact alone that he’s already on that threshold is commendable. It means he’s already internalizing the accent and is trying to use it properly instead of just speaking Spanish with his English accent. All he needs is to keep practicing and listening.

Joy

As a professional engineer with a minor in math, I agree that 7 has a better middle than 10.

Michelle Hoehn

I have a mighty need for those character playlists

Gabriele

Direi un 7 pieno. I had to reset my brain because of the sudden cognitive dissonance

Nathan Ricks

I love how the episode BEGINS with Amai being in control of a social situation with a powerful entity that Suvi would have messed up, and ENDED with Suvi talking to a powerful entity that Amai messes up. All because she wasn't on mute. I just love that juxtaposition.

Matthew B

Brennan on the allure of violence...so good. It's easier to avoid violence in a system where violence is dangerous and messy. It's more meaningful when you know violence is likely to work. Also, for informal feedback Brennan is right - 1-10 is clearer and easier. For one thing, having a perfectly neutral option is bad. If you have a perfect neutral people will pick it when they want to be nice but they would give negative feedback if they were being perfectly honest. People have already pointed out all the good reasons for using a different scale in more rigorous situations.

Gabriele

I'll see your odd number scales and raise to zero to even number scales: the usefulness of a middle and the beauty of an even maximum

Brother Alder

I definitely wouldn’t be fluent either unfortunately! I suppose the pronunciation all depends on which dialect you learned as well. Very cool to hear the gang taking influence from their stories regardless ☺️

vvitch

I assumed that it's being kept up by something or someone else, which may be why having a successor or a cottage as a place of power may be extra important as a witch. Which would put an emphasis on how important Amé 'inheriting' could be

vvitch

^^ tua-ha day daw-nann (from an, admittedly not fluent, speaker of irish)

Julie

CRAM DANIELS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!

Mathieu Joly

7

WiGeekMom

As someone who writes surveys in their job, and has researched how to do it, 1-7 is perfect. Followed closely by 1-5. 1-10 is the worst.

Moosebeanie

An addendum, Suvi is a whole mood

Moosebeanie

I quite like the indoctrinated by the empire vibes from Suvi

Hila Taylor

Hate to make Tyler work harder but... can we get reminders of sounds and themes from the episodes as they get referred to on fireside, please?

Hila Taylor

Pleaseee

CJ

Okay but maybe playlists for patreon fans? 👀

Alejandro Toro

As a native Spanish speaker hearing Brennan do his best with Spanish brings me a simultaneous joy and cringe of like "God he's so close I'm so proud and I can fully understand him, but there's this little bit off that makes me laugh." Keep doing your best, man! I can't wait for the next time you speak it, which I know will be even better!

adelaide

sorry how do you do all this amazing shit and also be in the top 1% of Duolingo?

Ric Freeman

I don't mean to brag, but I'm on a 477 day Duolingo streak. I'm also trying to learn Spanish, but solo se un poco. Soy tonto.

Brennan Holtzclaw

Look, there's a reason surveys use 1-5 scales. There has to be a middle ground. 5 isn't middle of 10, it's half of ten. On a scale of seven you have three bad choices, one middle ground, and three positive. Odd number scales are the only way to go.

Ignacio Segura Montero

Excelente acento, Brennan. Sigue practicando.

Locemo

Sounds like the new rating system gets a 2/7 from Brennan

Tony Eng

Wait what? me and Brennan wait to the same community College?

Jamie Wallace-Thexton

Well now I need the characters music playlists too

Benjamin Berejka

7

Lojaan

Badminton should be called fairy tennis

Jackaloop

Only if you start at 0 0 1 2 3 4 *5* 6 7 8 9 10 Otherwise you get an uneven side

Jackaloop

Petition to have the gang drop their playlist links

Maia Selkirk

In regards to the scale of 7, no one tell Brennan about the International Baccalaureate grading system

Susannah Perkins

wait can we follow you guys on Duolingo I need more friends

Barrett

I just can't get over the fact that Adonis goes straight to 7. Regardless of the whole "what is middle" debate, isn't "X out of 5" the obvious answer if you want a single "mid" option and "X out of 10" the choice if you want two even halves?

Geoffrey

Lot of good math-based comments about 1-10 vs 1-7, but the real benefit of 1-7 is it discourages snap responses. On a 1-10, everyone says 7 by default. A 1-7 (or any other "abnormal" scale really) you get a moment of thoughtfulness by coming in at a different angle.

Emily Woodbeck

Love that Aabria has a journal for Suvi, I have a diary I write as one of my characters because I find her feelings occupy my brain a lot out of game and I need to get those out in a productive way

christie botos

CRAM. CRAM THAT DANIELS. LESS GOOOO

Oscar Segoviano

Are episodes 10 and 11 on the patreon podcast feed. The one with no ads?

Mary McCormick

You're telling me Benjamim Franklin Gates, played by Nicholas Cage, escaping the FBI in the national treasure of a movie National Treasure, was an example of classic Pagan storytelling

Jessie Harris

Could we get the character playlists?

Pim

Are we still going to get the 7min documentary made by Lou about Brennan finding a voice for Cram Daniel that he's never used before?!

Justin Gray

I simply have to know who had the Zelda ringtone! I have the exact same one and I grabbed my phone to answer it and didn't see any calls. So confused and so excited to see that one of y'all is a Zelda nerd like me

faizaan723

Oh wow, Aabria outlining Suvi’s whole thought process during eps 9-11 and also Brennan’s input about her feeling torn between two viewpoints was just so so good

Qorvae

Trying to calculate the odds that you'd talk about Mononoke the day after I watch it for the first time... wild.

Hyodorio

Let me tell you all 1-7 is the scale of grades in educational system here and it drives me nuts. Having said that, this is a 7

Kyle Rudy

Thank you, Erika, for reading my question precisely as it was intended. It made my day. Aabria, thanks for the answer, it genuinely impresses me how you turned such rotten luck into an entertaining podcast. I've been playing games like D&D for twenty years and it can be rough trying to handle a no-good-very-bad day with good grace and humor. You make it look easy, and it's both enlightening and reassuring to know the work that goes into it! 7/7

Joe Stevens

7s across the board for this one, gang

Erik Parsons

Just so y'all know, WBN is a major part of my input while working on my dissertation.

Erika Abbas Hanna

Came here to say this! 5 is only the middle if 0 is an option! Usually it’s 1-10, not 0-10.

Jordon Brown

Former academic checking in — we routinely use a 7 point scale because it does offer a true middle point. Adonis was right.

Kyle Rudy

Adonis Gunz was 100% correct. 1 to 7 has a middle and 1 to 10 does not. 5 is not the middle unless the scale is 0 to 10. Brennan should know this, because it matters for dice logic! Even number ranges starting at 1 don't have a clean middle. 1 to 6's middle is 3.5. I'm sorry, Brennan, but in this case I've got to GET IN THE COMMENTS and decry your ignorance of an artfully chosen integer-based rating system. 1 to 7 boys, represent.

xatlern

The 7 point rating scale shown is extremely standard with likert items. I'm with Adonis on this one.

Esther

Yes. And a 0 to 10 scale has five in the middle, but has too much room. I just had a whole experience and I have to decide between was it 3 bad or 4 bad? Or if it was 6 good but not 7 good? That way lies insanity. 1 to 7 is perfect. It has an exact neutral. You don't have to deal with the brutality of giving something a 0. You don't have think about whether something was a 2 or a 3 or why you gave something a 9 but not an 8.

Chiara Pride

I love that the superstructure of the WW&WO is oriented against the squad of world changing heroes. It’s sadly more true to life and it leads to some relatable meltdowns

Daniel Neville

Does anyone else just really really need a Fox playlist now?

Brother Alder

Pretty sure Tuatha is pronounced TWO-ha. Irish is a brilliant, bizarre old language

Clever Lettuce

Hey, hey, hey. Hold up a second. Whose ringtone is the NES Legend of Zelda overworld theme?

Daylynnrey

Had to stop listening while at work because I was WAILING with laughter. Brennan's exclamation of "Five!" Followed by Erika's cackle BROKE me

E. Jason Davis

Adonis Gunz may be the best name I'll hear all year.

Ben Perry

So hype for Adonis Gunz to be on the show

Tyler Hildebran

Can we find, and subsequently follow, all of y'all on Duolingo? No worries if not, just want to follow the saga of Brennan's streak

Idunn Pil Søndergaard

So question, that has nothing to do with anything: might we at some point get a "Aabria teaches you how to make a cheat sheat" segment?

Mushroom Morgan

I say this with so much love in my heart as someone who has taught math in both public schools and to homeschool students, Brennan's homeschool and philosophy education really showed in favoring 1-10 over 1-7

Robert Burke

My brain insists that the reason Grandmother's spells are still going because her soul, her essence... hasn't been collected yet. Because the collector was denied entry for a year and a day.

StWindsor

That was a 7 point basketball dunk!

Wesley Jones

I find it hard to believe that Brennan has never heard of a Likert scale lol

Nolan Childerhose

This is a big old 7.

Bee Ami

Lou’s 1-7 rating system immediately reminded me of Jason Mendoza’s rating system of 1-13 with 8 being the best

Carrie Mook Bridgman

Listening to Aabriya describe Suvi's breakdown was fascinating. She says she keeps a feelings notebook to remind her of things Suvi is feeling that Aabriya isn't--a way of staying in Suvi's head. It must work, because Suvi *never* feels like a character played from a distance. She's just real.

Len Dueck

On using the D&D ruleset for diplomacy I was thinking of my recent campaign where we were campaigning for a local election for the leader of a farming collective. There were at least 3 sessions of speeches and plots. It was fantastic.

bluebluebutton

Seconded. "Me at my angriest is not me at my most honest."

bluebluebutton

My kingdom for those playlists!

Ben Hazel

I agree with Adonis, 1-10 is a flawed rating system because there's no true middle. Rating something as a 5 means it's technically below average and a 6 is above average. I can't give a nice whole number to mean "I don't have a ton of feelings about this thing". A d20 has an average roll of 10.5, not 10 because there are an even number of sides.

Carrie Mook Bridgman

I caught that, too, but they hadn't done introductions yet. That was kind of a pre-episode freeby.

Esther

Exactly! If one to ten is laid out on a page do you want me to circle the five AND six or the little space between the five and six? If it's just a clickable survey I'll have to scrap the whole thing. The only thing I can't express is neutrality? It would drive me to madness.

Esther

I have barely started this, but I am dying inside wanting to point out that a 0 to 10 rating system has an exact middle and a 1 to 10 rating system has a slightly-below-middle and a slightly-above-middle. Never wanted a spoiler more than this: Do they work that out before the end?

Douglas Coonfield

5 is the middle of a 0-10 scale. Seven scale is best if you don’t allow for a zero rating.

Just Shannanigans

What is a 1-7 rating system if not a 1-5 system with more wiggle room for opinions

Rachel Anderson

Split the Veil podcast uses a 1-7 rating system and I really like it! 5 is half of 10 by its really not in the middle of a 10 rating scale. It’s definitively on the bottom half of numbers.

Kelsie Crawford

The middle of 1-10 is 5.5. 1-5 is 5 numbers, 6-10 is 5 numbers. I fully support the 1-7 rating system

Merissa McClure

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that. I live for the chaos

Cait Batchelor

You talk about too much about too many good things and it’s really hard to not just write a long personal letter to you after each fireside. Also petition for Brennans therapy minute - bc I spent a lot of money to be able to say that one emotion is not my only emotion and I can make different and more cogent choices

Stuart Clark

looking at the comments before listening is a wild experience, cause i have ZERO context for any of what anyone’s talking about. truly sensational.

Charlie Karls

I generally agree with Brennan on most things, but Adonis has this on lockdown. The middle of 10 is between 5 and 6. If you look at your fingers on each hand, you wouldn't say the pinky on one of your hands is the middle of that space, you would say the space between your pinkies is the middle. You have five fingers on your hand. Is the middle of that not your middle finger? Adonis's scale works like this, 1. Worst 2. Worse 3. Bad 4. Neutral 5. Good 6. Better 7. Best

Brandon

Adoni$ Gunz is correct on the 1-7 thing. Classic Likert scale, think extremely disagree, disagree, somewhat disagree, neither agree nor disagree, somewhat agree, agree, extremely agree.

Anonymous Developer

Brennan is all the women i am the most afraid of in this episode of WBN :')

Merissa McClure

Not me immediately redownloading Duolingo

Justin Melillo

No one called Lou out on responding to being addressed as Lou in the beginning?

Matt Kilsby

I absolutely love that they consistently refer to how they will keep this going for "hundreds" of episodes. It makes me so happy to think that in a few years, when for all I know I may be living somewhere completely different, working a different job etc, these 4 lovely friends will still be sitting down together and making beautiful stories <3

Allyn

THE CRAMS!!!!

Allyn

IT IS FUNNY, but also tone is hard to just hear.

Allyn

Brennan doesn’t seem okay during the math part, I get the flabbergastness, but also are you okay???

Ngaire

CRAM DANIELS!!!!

mo

the intro made me remember to do my duolingo for the day

SvenTS

Cram Daniel lives!

Daniel Wong

Coming from a person who hasn't done statistics in a while... Half of ten is five, I don't think it's the middle. I actually agree with Adonis. On a graph of 7 discrete numbers from 1 to 7, the median would be 4. Did i get it right?